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Thoughts on Invasion  XML
Forum Index -> UT3 Invasion
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Wail

Rampage

Joined: 09/20/2007 21:14:41
Messages: 183
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I suppose I'll start things off here with some thoughts on Invasion.

I enjoyed stock Invasion as a break from the fast paced regular UT gameplay. Instead of being a competitive, and sometimes frustrating fragfest, it offered the opportunity to work cooperatively with other players to wipe out rather simple AI opponents.

The addition of RPG to Invasion made it very cool, but it also introduced a lot of problems which I think need to be addressed if plans are to go forward with creating an "Invasion" gametype for UT3.

I think in the interests of improving "Invasion" for UT3, it's important to look at Monster Hunt for the original UT. Monster Hunt was the predecessor to Invasion, and in many ways superior to it. The only significant disadvantage that MH had compared to Invasion was that it actually required its own maps, thus it didn't come with a huge number of built in maps that were at least playable. Realistically, though, many maps were completely unsuitable for Invasion, and others required editing to support the playercounts and gameplay requirements of a typical Invasion server.

Changing playercounts and pickups in a map is trivial, though, and were a MonsterHunt like system created, it would be rather trivial to recreate Invasion by placing monster factories throughout levels (or, better, have an option to automatically spawn monsters if none exist in the map) while adjusting the other elements of levels.

What MonsterHunt brings to the table is simple: MonsterHunt allows mappers to control what sort of enemies are spawned, where, when they spawn and how many, and set an end conditions for the map. These are relatively small differences, but they make a world of difference.

-A good invasion game is like playing DM-Generic, yet again, except this time only with monsters rather than people.
-A good Monster Hunt game places you on the cliffs of Na Pali, where you are attacked by Skaarj soldiers facing off against you on a nearby cliff. You have few weapons, so you must take cover and make your way across rickety platforms to attack them. Once you defeat the soldiers you proceed forward and see an abandoned Nali castle -- And you just got your head sniped off by Skaarj snipers in the towers. Your teammates take out the snipers, but there is no way through the gate. You must enter a nearby cave to destroy the counterweights keeping the portcullis closed. Once the gate is open, you pass through the castle and see a gondola which takes you from cliff-level to the ground. You ride the gondola down and are presented with a Nali NPC who instructs you to find the three crystals he needs to open a gate ...Etc,etc... Eventually you come across the Skaarj Lord who is the boss of the level, and once your entire team has pummelled him for 5 minutes and his 50,000 HP is worn down, you have completed the level and go on to the next (which could even be a "sequel").*

*Note, this is written up from memories of real Monster Hunt levels. It is not fictionalized, though it has been a few years since I played it.

By allowing mappers to control spawning of monsters, mappers can control both the flavor and the gameplay of their level. If I have a level in a Liandri factory, I may want robot opponents exclusively to attack you. If I have a level in a Necris stronghold, I may want exclusively Necris opponents to attack you. I can set up scenarios where players must defend a position against oncoming enemies, or where players must attack entrenched enemies, or situations where players must complete other objectives while under fire. Monster Hunt challenges need not even be based on combat. Many Japanese Monster Hunt maps played more like platformers, requiring skillful jumping challenges to proceed in levels. In the example I gave above, opening the portcullis was a [simple] puzzle, but more complex ones can also be made.

Just a short time ago on these forums I saw mention of including extremely hard enemies in Invasion, but because, by default, Invasion has such rudimentary controls, this isn't really a good idea. Monster Hunt, because it allows mappers to have control over how many enemies may appear, allows you to have those boss fights against one or a few really tough enemies that can withstand sustained fire from twenty people simultaneously.

Anyway, that's enough typing for me. I hope those of you who are looking into bringing Invasion back will take the time to consider the huge benefit of looking into bringing back these sorts of elements for UT3.
Fox_N.E.X.U.S.

Dominating
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Joined: 05/04/2006 16:20:50
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Sounds like a good idea to me. Someone please bring INV into UT3. I'll miss the monsters even though they always try to kill me.

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FogRaider(_MM)

Killing Spree

Joined: 02/23/2007 18:50:48
Messages: 89
Location: Pennsylvania
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I like the idea, but I don't see why this would need to replace invasion. This could easily stand side by side with invasion, as a fun alternative. Or maybe invasion would be an alternative to this. 50,000 HP bosses would be really stinking fun. But the "OMG I have nowhere to hide the monsters are all around me" part of the better invasion maps is something I wouldn't want to get rid of completely.
IMO, This (monster hunt)= Attacking
Invasion (ideally)= Defending
and thus both have their merits.
Wail

Rampage

Joined: 09/20/2007 21:14:41
Messages: 183
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FogRaider(_MM) wrote:
I like the idea, but I don't see why this would need to replace invasion. This could easily stand side by side with invasion, as a fun alternative. Or maybe invasion would be an alternative to this. 50,000 HP bosses would be really stinking fun. But the "OMG I have nowhere to hide the monsters are all around me" part of the better invasion maps is something I wouldn't want to get rid of completely.
IMO, This (monster hunt)= Attacking
Invasion (ideally)= Defending
and thus both have their merits. 


I'm not actually talking about "replacing" invasion. I'm more trying to advocate that anyone who is looking into creating Invasion think about adding the tools that made something like Monster Hunt possible (basically, placeable MonsterFactories that are triggerable).

Invasion is easily possible within an environment where a mapper can place MonsterFactories (what they were called in UT99/UE1). If I were to make a Venn diagram, what constitutes Invasion would be a subset of Monster Hunt gameplay.
-Jason_x-

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Joined: 04/25/2007 11:40:19
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Hmmm......
Monster hunt eh?
Sounds like assault..cept the goal is you take out the monsters..
I really like the idea....(but as a aside so both can be ran)
good idea..

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CaRnaGe


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Joined: 09/05/2007 16:59:23
Messages: 27
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In case for those of you who didn't see the UT3 invasion-ish topic, someone made a mod near completion on Invasion

http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=590438

When downloading, get the 001 file as that is the most up-to-date file.



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-Jason_x-

Wicked Sick!
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Joined: 04/25/2007 11:40:19
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Now THAT looks like the invasion we all know and love...
...it looks almost too good o_o...

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Joined: 09/05/2007 16:59:23
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OH yes....yes....Its like McDonalds....Its familiar, yet different...its good, but you know its not good for you...

Except for the not good for you part...This is good.



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FogRaider(_MM)

Killing Spree

Joined: 02/23/2007 18:50:48
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Another thing that would be cool is if we could have a Team Monster Hunt / Team Invasion game mode. Two teams send waves of monsters at each others' bases, whilst the players try to use their skills to turn the battle in their favor.
Dracos

Rampage
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Joined: 09/27/2007 13:36:52
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Location: South Carolina
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FogRaider(_MM) wrote:
Another thing that would be cool is if we could have a Team Monster Hunt / Team Invasion game mode. Two teams send waves of monsters at each others' bases, whilst the players try to use their skills to turn the battle in their favor. 


Something like both teams have monsters attacking them and each base has abilities to help. The other team can take 1 member off thier defending force and cross the battlefield to the opponents base and sabatoge it.

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FakeTruth



Joined: 02/27/2009 12:27:46
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I used to enjoy MonsterHunt too, and it doesn't sound so hard to bring it over to UT3.

I'm currently working on a HIGHLY overconfigurable invasion mutator for UT3, click, you guys think it would be a good idea to put some stuff in so it can also be used for MonsterHunt?

The only problem is that we don't have any skaarj monsters.. just regular skaarj playermodels, we need models! And lots of them!!

Don't forget that our project is opensource, so anybody can contribute, send tips and requests through our google code page. The mutator is already playable, but far from done! This is because we're planning to make it huge
FakeTruth



Joined: 02/27/2009 12:27:46
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Scratch that! We're currently exporting and reimporting the monsters!! We already got the GasBag and NaliCow! Hell yeah! Next up is the Titan!
 
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