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Utilizing one magic weapon type to amp up another weapon  XML
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TheDruidXpawX

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Joined: 12/19/2004 18:32:13
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Greetings.

We have a long standing issue where you can use one magic weapon type to amp up another weapon.

Historically, we haven't taken an official stance on this... more to the point, we've just ignored it. However it seems that players are developing strategies around what is.. at best exploitation, and at worst cheating. Therefore we must take a broader action on this topic.

We realize that you may use one weapon for one situation, and quickly switch to another, however, if we regularly see vorpal flak balls coming from any player, we will take a serious look at if you are exploiting this flaw in the RPG core.

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Szlat

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Sorry - post deleted, and pm'd instead
Continuum

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I agree 100% with this stance but with certain weapons (minelayer & grenade launcher) is it suggested that you not lay mines / grenades if you will be using a vorp ?

(I usally don't have a vorp especially when playing as a lw but just asking to see what the official word is on this sort of thing.)




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Fro13

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It's hard to get the flak to "be a vorpal" or any other type of flak that it wasn't. If you get too close to the monster, you won't be able to switch fast enough, and if you're to far away, it's a difficult shot , and it takes too long to be any use. You could kill it just as fast or faster other ways(at least for me). I'm not saying you can't do it, but it's a little more difficult than other guns.

The only guns really able to exploit this easily are the super weapons, the avril, grenades, landmines, and maybe the rocket(i've never bothered trying the rockets). The super weapons are usually going to kill everying anyway, unless it's on the later waves which then it would be good to switch to a piercing.

I use the avril with my LW character(haven't play much with lately) to combo, and this just ends up being a byeproduct of that. I shoot my avril and switch to a flak, LG, or shock. distance usually dictates which gun i use, and the avril ends up being one of those guns.

If you see this as a problem, then the only ways to fix it is to change the rpg core, or to get rid of speed switch. Personnally, I wouldn't like to see either done, one is a lot of work which could be put to other things and the other I enjoy.

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Icey

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Would using a superweapon to heal the party as a whole be exploitation of the magic weapon type? Just asking, since I tend to do that in the later waves, firing off a deemer or ion painter then switching to my medic gun to both kill monsters and heal my party to maximize experience gained.

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BotFodder

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Icey wrote:
Would using a superweapon to heal the party as a whole be exploitation of the magic weapon type? 

IANAA (I Am Not An Admin), but I'd say unfortunately, yes.

It's my impression that any time you take a weapon that has some travel/blast time to it (such as the deemer, avril, or even rocket - and with the proper timing, the Ion) and purposefully switch to a different weapon in order to give the original weapon different properties, you're ... "utilizing" ... this weakness in the RPG core.

I have to tell you - this is a classic "players vs. admins" issue, and I've seen it many a time before: a weakness in the code allows unintended (and possibly unbalanced) benefits. What's worse in this case is that it's not an easily fixed weakness, and enforcing the desired result relies heavily on the judgement of the admins, because the line can be arguably blurry ...

I see some potentially heated debates in the future ...

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deidog

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I think BotFodders right this one can get ugly real quick.

My biggest concern would be as someone else mentioned weapon switching/combo'ing is a rather traditional and excepted tactic of the game. That makes it very difficult it easily judge abuse of the issue.


Basically I fear winding up in a situation where non loaded weapons can use the weapon combo's and not be seen as exploiting because theres not the transfer of magical properties but thos eof us with loaded 5 there always is....
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Let me be clear: this post is not asking for a debate on this issue. If you have questions about this rule, that is welcome in this thread. Please stay with the topic and intent of this thread.

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Moof

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Shantara wrote:
Let me be clear: this post is not asking for a debate on this issue. If you have questions about this rule, that is welcome in this thread. Please stay with the topic and intent of this thread. 


On that note, Shan, could we get an official and concrete response on healing deemers?

My guess, based on Dru's original post, is that they are not allowed.

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Shantara

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"Official" response as Moof requested:
I hate to say it, but yes, firing a super weapon and switching to a medic weapon to make it a medic super weapon is cheating.

That being said, we are contemplating creating a new level of Loaded Medic where you get an artifact or something that would just give you a healing super weapon, because we think it sounds like a cool idea.

If you want to discuss this potential new idea, however, make a separate thread for it in the Druids RPG forum. Please keep this thread on topic.
Thanks.

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TheDruidXpawX

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Continuum wrote:
I agree 100% with this stance but with certain weapons (minelayer & grenade launcher) is it suggested that you not lay mines / grenades if you will be using a vorp ? 


So this may sound a bit fuzzy, and I'm sorry for that.

If I have a mine layer, and a vorpal, I'll often use my mines, to protect my back, and switch to my vorpal to kill lots of things.

I'm not going to stop that based upon this, although my intent also isn't to exploit the loophole.

This post is more about people exploiting the flaw vs regular gameplay. This flaw will occur in regular gameplay, and we know that.

I guess the best way to put it is... if you're exploiting the loophole on purpose, stop. If you're playing with a vorpal and mines, and the mines ocassionally vorpal, don't stress.

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supertoast

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I fire a deemer, I usually use a medic flak cannon, my order of brining up weapons auto-switches to my flak. To not be cheating do I need to switch to a new weapon?
BotFodder

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Dru/Shan/another admin will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what's at issue is your intention.

If you purposefully fire off your deemer in order not only to kill monsters but heal players since you autoswitch to your healing weapon, then you're breaking the rules.

However, if people get healed as an accidental by-product of your attempting to kill a monster or two (well, hopefully as many as you can) with a deemer and your auto-switching, then you are not breaking the rules.

So, it would look really really bad if you saw a group of (particularly wounded) players, particularly with no monsters around, and fired your deemer off then ...

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TIMMY

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BotFodder wrote:
Dru/Shan/another admin will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what's at issue is your intention.

If you purposefully fire off your deemer in order not only to kill monsters but heal players since you autoswitch to your healing weapon, then you're breaking the rules.

However, if people get healed as an accidental by-product of your attempting to kill a monster or two (well, hopefully as many as you can) with a deemer and your auto-switching, then you are not breaking the rules.

So, it would look really really bad if you saw a group of (particularly wounded) players, particularly with no monsters around, and fired your deemer off then ... 


It's gonna be kinda hard to tell wat the player intention is, coz the deemer is a slow-firing weapon and a medic may shoot it at an enemy but the enemy gets killed by sum1 else b4 the deemer even reaches its target(this happens expecially when everyone's trying to get the last monster on a wave)......then ppl might point fingers that the medic was abusing the game flaw.......same with my LW character wherein I combo all the time regardless of the magical properties(I only have LW 3).......so my intention is to get the most damage that i can in the shortest amount of time to the monster(dats wat speedswitcher and weapon speed is for after all).......... BUT not to utilize another magical property with another weapon and thus break the rules........but it happens regardless and player intentions, playing style and tendencies make it hard to judge if their abusing the flaw or not.....

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Anytime I try to fire the Redeemer, I am trying top inflict the most damage in the most effective place. Whether it is in the center of a group of titans, warlords, and or queens. I wish there could be a way to counteract this problem of the healing super weapon. Specifically with the Redeemer and Ion Painter. If there is a way to counteract this, then cool. If not oh well I guess...but the idea of a healing medic weapon could probably be put to great use.

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