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FLAK +5!?!?!?!  XML
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Shadow-X

Rampage

Joined: 01/22/2006 13:46:46
Messages: 114
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Is there any way to leave them in the game just do what ooo said.Make them noncopyable where there is a * so we can't pass them around like candy...
Mach10

Killing Spree

Joined: 01/19/2006 17:43:06
Messages: 57
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I don't see why Dru couldn't, but I think most everything for Druids 190 is set in stone and no flak 5 and RL 5 is apart of that.
Shadow-Yoda

Killing Spree
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Joined: 04/03/2006 23:16:44
Messages: 43
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TECHNICALLY there will still be flak 5s (unless Dru takes out Flak 4s). Just get an Energy Master to give it a +1. But sadly, no flak 6

Yoda Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoda

Quotes of the ancient Yoda

"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship."

"Ready are you? What know you of ready? For eight hundred years have I trained Jedi. My own counsel will I keep on who is to be trained. A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh. Excitement. Heh. A Jedi craves not these things. You are reckless."

"Lost a planet Master Obi-Wan has. How embarrassing..."


http://www.heroesmini.com/register.php?ref_id=134423
Hobo_Joe

Wicked Sick!
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Joined: 06/12/2005 20:15:17
Messages: 513
Location: Utah
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Adren. master's can't toss weapons they've used the +1 modifier on...

A wise monkey is a monkey who doesn't monkey with another monkey's monkey.

The only time I made a mistake is when I thought I made a mistake.

After partying all night Chuck Norris doesn't throw up; Chuck throws down!

Loaded Weapons: [WMD]Hobo_Joe lvl: 389
Medic: Hobo_Healer lvl: 101
Loaded Artifact: LA_Hobo lvl:71
Engineer: enJOEneer lvl:110
No-Class: the_hobonator lvl:54
Monster Master: Summoner_Joe lvl:42
Mach10

Killing Spree

Joined: 01/19/2006 17:43:06
Messages: 57
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Perhaps I'm wrong, but isn't Dru scrapping all plus flak's and rocket's? Or, only the +5's?
deidog

Killing Spree

Joined: 12/29/2005 05:55:01
Messages: 43
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I know he said +5 vanilla . So I was thinking the 4 and less would stay but thats just interpratation. Not positive.
Fraggerman

Killing Spree

Joined: 05/26/2005 17:53:49
Messages: 68
Location: Hear and their.
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I see a slippery slope ahead and I, for one, am putting on my boots. I don't see why a plus 5 flak is so much more evil than a plus four. Is their damage all that different? The answer is "NO" and soon we'll see the plus four thrown out too, then the three, and before we know it we will have all slipped to the bottom of that slope and find ourselves defending ourselves with either weapons which can't be passed out or a batch of assult rifles.

Nobody likes me
[KitFox]

Dominating
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Joined: 11/25/2005 07:59:59
Messages: 232
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I already changed my playstyle so i dont rely on Flak 5 Anymore.

If i get any of those:

Protection
Null Entropy
Rage
Freezing (When Freezing effect gets fixed)

I dont take a Flak 5. So once Vanilla Flaks are out, its not gonna be a so drastic change, I just accepted it And believe me, I think Protection and Null are better than Flak 5! Just ask a AM to max them for you and you will see the real power of them!

If Tripple change tough thats another story ...
320

Wicked Sick!

Joined: 10/11/2005 21:28:38
Messages: 605
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[KitFox wrote:
]I already changed my playstyle so i dont rely on Flak 5 Anymore.

If i get any of those:

Protection
Null Entropy
Rage
Freezing (When Freezing effect gets fixed)

I dont take a Flak 5. So once Vanilla Flaks are out, its not gonna be a so drastic change, I just accepted it And believe me, I think Protection and Null are better than Flak 5! Just ask a AM to max them for you and you will see the real power of them!

If Tripple change tough thats another story ... 


Yeah, I agree. When I started my LA char, I had to make a ton of changes. I used the mines and avril religiously with LW. Mines, avril, lightning and flak were 99% of my arsenal. So I "lost" 50% of my weps in giving LA a go. But I just started learning and exploiting artifact strategies, maxing and tripling everything. No more flak 5? No problem, I'll just figure something else out.

I know the majority of players are "casual" and don't play with the commitment that some of us do, but if you want to get good, you have to just live with the idea that nothing is permanent and that the good strategies are ones you're probably not going to be comfortable with at first. In other words, someone who's good at deathmatch and just wants to do their awesome DM strats over and over and wonders why he isn't winning is never gonna get good until he tosses the majority of that DM stuff in the garbage can.

I'm not worried about this change at all from the standpoint of "can I still get big points." I'm only concerned about the changes from the standpoint of it diminishing the fun factor or killing key tactics that I think add a lot of depth to the game.

I don't like the lowered power of the flak and RL because they are both great combo weapons and combos are not easy to pull off consistently, which is a good thing. You get more kills but it takes more practice and skill. I think if you use two or more weapons in an intelligent combination to achieve a kill a half-second faster than the other guy, that kill should be yours the majority of the time, which is the way it is now. I like that dynamic. It's that dynamic that makes the game fun for me.

I'll save everybody a lot of time and future gnashing of teeth, though. If the flak 5 goes, the mini 5 should go with it. The mini 5 + triple is actually worse overall than a flak 5 in terms of its effect on gameplay.

- kills at nearly the same rate as a flak 5 in actual gameplay (ROF figures might say differently).
- no self dmg
- double the effective range of the flak
- eats ammo quickly. Meaning, high levels with resupply 4 and a high max ammo stat will be able to capitalize, while lower level players get murdered.

When people were complaining about not needing to aim with the flak 5, I just shook my head. The mini is even more forgiving of bad aim. And you can't use it to combo, really, because of the spool-up time, so combo skill isn't rewarded. Way less skill than a flak, overall, but similar effects.

I'm with the idea that a vanilla +flak should be non-copyable, or each plus should equal maybe 5-7% instead of 10%, or do both. Yeah, I know the decision is probably a done-deal and in the long and short, it's no biggee in terms of winning or losing. Just in how I play the game.



Spacey

Wicked Sick!
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Joined: 01/07/2005 21:28:14
Messages: 589
Location: Da'Burgh (Pittsburgh) PA
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What miffs me is that some of us are playing smarter, using tricks like "artifact X with weapon Y", we start making a killing, somebody whines about it, and next thing we see that trick nerfed. Sheesh! I thought given what was said when the sprees were added that it was all about playing smarter, not harder. But I guess some folks think that regardless of how the older players are now higher levels, and we have things like combos, the rest of us should still be getting crappy scores.

To be perfectly honest, since this latest nerfing announcement, I have made several adjustments to my game. They include:

1) I have mostly stopped relying on normal damage weapons. I have been going more and more towards using rage (only way I can keep up with the LW players with their +80% damage bonuses right now), with other types such as piercing, inf, vamp (if I can ever get it) or that oh so mythical vorpal (which I have long since given up on trying to make). And like Kit, I think the Prot is a good one as well. But given my close-up playing style, Null, Freezing and Poison are generally suicidal at the moment.

2) I have mostly stopped handing out normal damage weapons, unless I have been given one to max.

3) I have been handing out fewer other weapons, including non-clonables, even to lower level players. I used to try to hand these out, but most of the time, either nobody wants them, or I am too busy trying to make a good weapon to wait for someone to come get it. BTW...This applies to INF weapons like the RL or flak. I used to find someone to take them given my resupply does pretty good even at constant fire. But now I am more likely to either play with it (hey, +12% is nothing to sneeze at now) or remake it in the hopes of getting a rage.

4) Maxing? I need my adren more (I now max at 230) for trying to make a good weapon worth maxing for myself, or for things like booster or globe to keep myself alive if/when I finally do get that rage rl, flak, or shock. So unless you have something good for me or have done me a good turn, I generally do not have the adren.

5) Globe?? Some of the medics may remember that I was pretty much tossing it to the first one to heal me, since they tended to be even more fragile than my LA player at times. Can any one of them remember the last time I did that??

6) Points allocation...well, lets just say that in preparation for the next great nerfing of the LA players (who should use adren more efficently than LW or medics IMO), I have changed how I am spending my points for the next half dozen levels or so.

There is more, but I will be darned if I am going to give away more of my secrets so someone can cry about how well I am scoring and end up getting yet another trick nerfed. And if they don't like it, well...let's just say that if approached outside of DC, I would be making references to threaded hardware and pointing out that with a bit of practice, I can still at least hold my own with the bots set on godlike with a little practice (given how different INV is from things like DM, CTF, LMS, etc.)


*BEL*_e (spacey), BEL Clan General -- You Frag em, I'll Slag em!
LA -- *BEL*_e (level 283 - Extreme AM), LW -- *BEL*_o (level 26) MM - ?? ( *BEL*_Rolaids ?? *BEL*DrWho??, Engineer... *BEL*BS_E_E [BSEE '89, Ohio U] (level 22)

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[KitFox]

Dominating
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Joined: 11/25/2005 07:59:59
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Forget that.

I'm unable to express what i think.
deidog

Killing Spree

Joined: 12/29/2005 05:55:01
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[KitFox wrote:
]Here is my Definitive Point of View:

4) 3 LA players are making people mad. Me, 320, Ooo. And in my Opinion, its not because we are LAs. Its because we are crazy gamers. End of Story.

 


I didn't even realize people were getting mad over something. I thought Druid just decided they were too powerfull for some reason...

How the heck could anyone get mad at you 3 anyway? Getting mad at you ,ooo and 320 is kinda like getting mad at a cuddly teddy bear.
320

Wicked Sick!

Joined: 10/11/2005 21:28:38
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deidog wrote:

[KitFox wrote:
]Here is my Definitive Point of View:

4) 3 LA players are making people mad. Me, 320, Ooo. And in my Opinion, its not because we are LAs. Its because we are crazy gamers. End of Story.

 


I didn't even realize people were getting mad over something. I thought Druid just decided they were too powerfull for some reason...

How the heck could anyone get mad at you 3 anyway? Getting mad at you ,ooo and 320 is kinda like getting mad at a cuddly teddy bear. 


Well, *I* think I'm a teddy bear. I've been eating a lot of junk food lately and not exercising as much as I should so I'm kind of squishy at present. (Still devastatingly handsome, though, not to mention incredibly charming, a great sense of humor - the list goes on. But I digress...)

Kit changed his post so as not to offend. But what can I say to answer your question? It's ultimately a touchy subject on this server and really goes to the core. One that I think has been running in the undercurrent for quite some time. I think all the top players feel it in some way. It boils down to two basically different mentalities on this server: "play for fun" vs "competitive play", which is what, in the end, truly differentiates the average player from the top player. Time to maybe call a spade a spade and break it all down.

When I used to play EQ, there was this strong belief among the majority of players that "levels = power" and "levels = skill". It was this idea that if you leveled up and got all the fancy items and weapons, now you're "good" and automatically deserving of respect. I think that's half the reason people played EQ - the belief that if you leveled up enough, you would attain "automatic" status as "good".

To put it all quite simply: Status

I see the same thing in all games that have levels and classes (not to mention in life itself). In EQ it got ridiculous, to the point of absurdity. People would play politics and worm their way onto the top guilds and suddenly they're "good" and flash tons of attitude. Mess with them and you were supposedly messing with their whole guild. Too often they were mediocre. Stupidness.

I'm not saying this is synonymous with DC, but the "levels = skill = respect" element is definately there, that belief, that undercurrent.

But what happens when a low level beats a high level, or one class beats another?

Some people jump to the conclusion that something must be broken in the game. See, it's a tough pill to swallow that maybe you got outplayed by superior skill, practice and strategy.

I've been there. I recall recieving ludicrous beatdowns at the hands of Ooo playing the "weaker LA class" (the prevalent belief at the time, even my own). I was like, "What? Is this guy using an aimbot or something?" See, initially that was my inner scrub talking.

But then I slapped myself with that stupid talk. "Dang. How am I gonna even this up? I need to rotate my flow."

I didn't start thinking, "LA must have some unfair advantages". I didn't think I "deserved" to win just because I'd won countless times before or because I had 20 levels on him. I went back to the drawing board, spectated Fro a bit and ripped off most of his stuff, invented a few of my own tricks. And eventually the flow was back on. I got speed switcher 2 and delved into the combo theory. I took it to the next level.

Thankfully, the general idea that LA can't compete has been soundly defeated. Ooo has the top score right now (and rightly earned) on the high score table, and even if it is later defeated, the point has been made in abundance: LA can play. LA can hang. No changes to the LA class are required so that they can "compete".

But getting back to the original point, another belief I feel is short-sighted is this idea that if you go for score or play to win or fight aggresively, that you're not a "team player". I experienced this atttitude more when I played LW, but now that I'm playing LA (again, the so-called "weaker class"), the sentiment has sort of abated. Why? I'm handing out the good weapons (which I spent my adren to max) and not scrambling for a triple... and I'm healing when I get a healing gun. When I die, I'm telling people there's a triple out there. Nutshell-wise, I'm basically leaving no excuses for anyone to accuse me of being some sort of "griefer".

But, I'm still winning. LOL yes I still win.

One sentiment that needs to be rebuked is this "play for fun" thing, like "playing to win" the scoreboard, or killing as much stuff as your ability allows is somehow not fun or against the team or a bad thing.

I play for fun and I'm having fun, a ton of fun. If I wasn't having fun I wouldn't play. I don't participate to torture myself. Nor, should I add, do I play to stomp newbies or assert myself among them. I really don't care about newbies. I care about whoever is number 2 on the scoreboard, and about increasing the distance between me and him/her.

When played at the highest level of this game, when going toe-to-toe with another fighter, strugging and straining for each and every kill, there's a certain beauty to it, a graceful dance of strategic execution and accuracy - of refined, practiced perfection. A very fine line between a win and a loss.

You will see (if you look hard) in those moments when two good players go head up, the true pinnacle of the way this game can be played. It's on the next level. Never fails to awe me, even when I'm neck deep in it.

The player that desires to get there, that can look his ego in the face and who's not afraid to test his limits and limitations, can learn from it. Those that can't will simply scoff, or say "I could have done that" or "it's just a game, why take it so seriously?"

Or, speaking to the topic of this thread and several others, "xyz weapon is too powerful" and "xyz class is too powerful and needs to be nerfed".

Sometimes there are valid arguments for modifying weapons, class, etc. But the majority of time, these arguments are simply a masquerade. Here's the tough truth: you just plain lost. No, not because of a flak 5. Not because the other guy was LW and you were LA or vice versa. Not because of a triple. Not because he's high level and you're not.

You got outplayed, that's why you lost.

No shame in losing. Learn and get better. Play harder.

Yeah, it's a game. Yeah it's stupid and meaninless. Stupid game. What's the point? Why get so worked up?

So who wants to win this game?

I welcome the challenge. I hope to see you there!


[KitFox]

Dominating
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Joined: 11/25/2005 07:59:59
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Nice writing 320. Clearly you got skill not only in game

I tough about it again and what i wanted to say is: very selective LA players makes LA class look pwerfull.

But its not because of the class.

Its because of what 320 just wrote, and it ends up that those player have chosen LA. Why? For me, it was because LA looked harder and its a lot more challenging


But, I'm still winning. LOL yes I still win.
 


Ahem.. not always
deidog

Killing Spree

Joined: 12/29/2005 05:55:01
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yeah , I know what ya mean about the caual vs hardcore gamer thing.

I too played EQ for several years. I was a Raider myself , so I understand the mentallity very well. The behavior of some of the people at that level is amazing. I remember recruiting being so difficult because some people really would have 2 personalities , a nice little prospect and then a dickhead member that wanted phat loots. Actually that often did follow with a 3rd ... the pissy ex-guildie with an attitude.


I'm surprised to see that much of a similar attitude here though.
 
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