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Szlat

Wicked Sick!

Joined: 05/18/2005 18:32:41
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In a different post, 320 stated

320 wrote:
The other day I was playing with a high level player with my LA char (low level). It came down to just the two of us on wave 16, so I ran like heck and just tried to stay alive so that the high level player could get the job done. 

Now all credit to 320 here - he is doing everything he can to help the team complete the wave.

However, take a step back and re-appraise exactly what is happening here. We are saying the low levels should hide to keep the monsters low level, so the high level players can have lots of fun and stack up shedloads of points killing low level monsters. Something just doesn't feel right here. I know if the wave is completed the low levels will get 80 points, but then so will the high levels.

Now in other posts, people including myself have suggested ways of making the 'high level player alone on wave 16' situation easier - more damage bonus, or all weapons piercing, etc. However, on reflection, I like the fact that wave 16 is difficult. Now I am not a high level player, and I can only once remember being the last person alive on wave 16, but I would have thought the high level players would like the challenge of tackling difficult monsters.

So, an alternative suggestion. Leave all the db/dr stuff as it is, and have the monsters being very hard to kill, but increase the xp associated with them. So, instead of a warlord always being 10 points, make it worth 10+(monster level/5) points. So a level 80 warlord, with damage reduction 280 would be worth 26 points, whilst a warlord level 10 with 35 dr would only be worth 12 points. Give the high levels more reward for the more difficult job they are doing.
(It may not be possible to implement exactly this due to the experience code being buried in the core RPG, but the extra points could be given to the killer of the monster in the ability ScoreKill function)

Just a thought.
KohanX

Godlike

Joined: 03/04/2006 13:40:23
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I like it. I think know why they mayn't like the difficult monsters though, because, you put so much time and effort into maknig this great character, only to be matched my monsters of the same strength. Except, technically they aren't the same strength, because though they might be somewhere around your level, they only put points into DB and DR, and equally so (imagine if they specialized *shudder*). Yeah, that's my two cents.
320

Wicked Sick!

Joined: 10/11/2005 21:28:38
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I think a piercing artifact would be cool. You activate it and it eats maybe 5 - 7 adren per second and makes your weapon piercing but retains the original magic of the weapon (or not, that might be overpowered). Maybe it just makes it piercing.

Or like I said in the other thread, a "piercing weapon maker" for LA.

More exp would be nice, but in a lot of situations you're just running to stay alive, period. It's not like I'm thinking, "Gee, if only they were worth more exp I'd risk it." Having all those monsters to myself is a tremendous exp opportunity already.
Mach10

Killing Spree

Joined: 01/19/2006 17:43:06
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Yeah, from what I see wave 16 is always a challenge, but the challenge varies depending on the map. I've never seen FTP-Tutorial Classic completed, and routinely ONS maps are done with after wave 14. Also, I remember blade was the last one left on a map, and there were two titans left that had spawned at his level. It literally took him 10 minutes to kill this titan as he didn't have a piercing weapon. In this case blade was clearly good enough to compete with a high level monster, but it's as though he was fighting monsters on god mode.
KohanX

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Perhaps monsters will be given extra XP (by that, I mean give extra XP to players) dependent upon their level. Experience per level can be modified to reflect changes in balance. This was noted before, yes? I realize it won't change your mindset, but if you actually stop and think about it, a wave one titan (abstract thought here) is worth (way) less than a wave 16 titan.
320

Wicked Sick!

Joined: 10/11/2005 21:28:38
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KohanX wrote:
Perhaps monsters will be given extra XP (by that, I mean give extra XP to players) dependent upon their level. Experience per level can be modified to reflect changes in balance. This was noted before, yes? I realize it won't change your mindset, but if you actually stop and think about it, a wave one titan (abstract thought here) is worth (way) less than a wave 16 titan. 


From levels 20 - 70 are quite a grind. They take a long time. But then, your experience and character skills start to kick in. Even though it costs 10k per level, leveling takes less and less time as you get more powerful. Right now, if I really want to grind levels with my LW char, I can gain a level about every 4 - 5 maps (i.e. 2000 - 2500 per map). I would say the majority of 100+ level LW players are getting at least 1200 per map. I don't know what LA is getting. (Kitfox?)

Anyway, I'm not too concerned about the "end-game". Myself and the other high level players find ways to challenge ourselves, like the weapon records, kill records, bingo, etc.

Wave 16 can be a little one-dimensional, but not always. Sometimes you can find a great hiding spot. Sometimes it's a challenge to just keep transing until the monsters expire.
cplmac

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Joined: 12/19/2004 21:10:38
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I think what 320 was doing was the team thing to do. I can tell you from experience that a map full of level 200 titans, queens, warlords and nalis are virtually unbeatable without a triple. I have sat and emptied a mini+3 point blank into a warlord (I have resupply 4 and 540 ammo with the mini) and seen its health bar (I have awareness 2) not move one milimeter. When there are many of them left which is not uncommon they are pretty much invinceable. Add to that the fact that they are dealing 100+ points of damage per shot, and often times more with cranked up intelligence and backup from other monsters, and the ability to teleport to wherever you are, there would never be a victory without the selfless stay alive mentality of lower level players. My character has all stats maxed and doesn't even make a tiny dent in the health of wave 16 baddies.

good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
KohanX

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320: bingo?
cplmac: The warlord thing doesn't make sense. Warlords have 500 Health (memory a little sketchy, not exactly sure), and their health is not influenced by their level, only DB and DR. Therefore, 500 hits with a minigun should kill it, regardless. Dunno what happened there.

cplmac wrote:
selfless stay alive 
You sure you have your definitions right?
cplmac

Wicked Sick!
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Umm yeah. Instead of having more fun maybe trying to kill the monsters and getting killed he is being selfless and taking the less fun approach of running and hiding. And as for the warlords, it is not a glitch or a one time thing. It is every time, they have access to the same skills and abilities we do for the most part, including regen, health bonus, weapon speed, DB, DR, etc. etc. . I have watched monsters health go up, before you comment on this stuff, I suggest you witness it or get some basis for your opinion. Dispersions on mine will net you bad karma.

good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
Fraggerman

Killing Spree

Joined: 05/26/2005 17:53:49
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.

Nobody likes me
320

Wicked Sick!

Joined: 10/11/2005 21:28:38
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KohanX wrote:
320: bingo?
cplmac: The warlord thing doesn't make sense. Warlords have 500 Health (memory a little sketchy, not exactly sure), and their health is not influenced by their level, only DB and DR. Therefore, 500 hits with a minigun should kill it, regardless. Dunno what happened there.

cplmac wrote:
selfless stay alive 
You sure you have your definitions right? 


lol... you got a graphic but it's not as cool as Vortex'.
KohanX

Godlike

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Nonono, you're thinking selfish, or if not that, simply unfun. Selfless is a total 'I don't give a crap about myself, just as long as everyone else is okay' mindset.

Hmm... I'll get you some code later, I gotta get to school.
Chyster

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KohanX wrote:
Warlords have 500 Health (memory a little sketchy, not exactly sure), and their health is not influenced by their level, only DB and DR. Therefore, 500 hits with a minigun should kill it, regardless. Dunno what happened there. 


The fact remains that when a high level player is the last person alive, all critters left breathing automatically jump up to that level. And they are all dang near impossible to kill (even with a trip). Cpl is absolutely right. As well he should be, he's more often than not one of the last players alive.

Protecting the lower level players or them running from monsters on the later waves is very important. I agree that it is selfless on their part with regard to team goals if they choose to run.

As for health being influenced by level, I believe it is. If you have ever played any type of role playing game where it wasn't, you had a crappy game.

Chys

If at first you don't friccasee, fry, fry a hen.
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[KitFox]

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I would say the majority of 100+ level LW players are getting at least 1200 per map. I don't know what LA is getting. (Kitfox?)
 


I dont know if i should answer that question
On average those days its 1600/1700 XP per maps.
I dont think im a good reference, because i ALWAYS kill Nalis with HeadShot. Wich give me an easy 300 xp advantage right there.

(By the Way: Nothing breaks my heart more than seeing someone killing a Nali with Flak or Rocket Launcher lol)

If less than 10 people are on the map, i can jump to 2500 easy. The trick is to get the Most combos you can. (Multi Kills)

My record is close to 3500 xp. When there was a perfect positionning of Titans, i ended up with more than 15 Holy Crap in a row.

On a side Note: on ONS Maps i cannot do better than 800-900 xp. Multi Kill are almost impossible, and it takes around 1 hour to finish
Lets not talk about Assault
320

Wicked Sick!

Joined: 10/11/2005 21:28:38
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[KitFox wrote:
]

I would say the majority of 100+ level LW players are getting at least 1200 per map. I don't know what LA is getting. (Kitfox?)
 


I dont know if i should answer that question
On average those days its 1600/1700 XP per maps.
I dont think im a good reference, because i ALWAYS kill Nalis with HeadShot. Wich give me an easy 300 xp advantage right there.

(By the Way: Nothing breaks my heart more than seeing someone killing a Nali with Flak or Rocket Launcher lol)

If less than 10 people are on the map, i can jump to 2500 easy. The trick is to get the Most combos you can. (Multi Kills)

My record is close to 3500 xp. When there was a perfect positionning of Titans, i ended up with more than 15 Holy Crap in a row.

On a side Note: on ONS Maps i cannot do better than 800-900 xp. Multi Kill are almost impossible, and it takes around 1 hour to finish
Lets not talk about Assault  


That sounds about right. That's what people can expect if they work hard to get better.

As for this whole selfless/selfish stuff, I see this thread bordering on an issue of etiquette. I don't like people assuming people should play one way or another. I play the way I want to play within the rules and you should, too. Sometimes I help the team, sometimes I help myself. It's what I choose to do at the time.



 
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