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+5's and triple dmg.  XML
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Mystic

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Joined: 12/21/2004 21:36:56
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lately ive noticed people crazy for flak 5's. then begging for triples..
now im not one to complain much ..but its ridiculous to have 20 people with flak 5's and half of them with triples.. its like the mine layer was..

so im wondering if thiers a way to make plus 4's and 5's * non clonable..
or maybe the triple dmg not giveable..

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super_sonic



Joined: 01/22/2006 13:05:59
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Mystic wrote:
lately ive noticed people crazy for flak 5's. then begging for triples..
now im not one to complain much ..but its ridiculous to have 20 people with flak 5's and half of them with triples.. its like the mine layer was..

so im wondering if thiers a way to make plus 4's and 5's * non clonable..
or maybe the triple dmg not giveable..

 


well since u want to get rid of bieng ble to drop the triple damage artifact why not get rid of the globe since thats very popular too or maybe the boots of flight? lol
Okinesu

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Joined: 12/19/2004 20:45:34
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I thought you were kidding, but I just played a map, and EVERYONE was after it... mostly because Ooo was there. I've noticed that no one cares unless Ooo drops by, he's like the Flak +5 Santa.

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Pyramidion

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I'd agree with that it's almost like the minelayer was.... I think that limiting the 4's and 5's is a good idea, but I have a different idea about the triple... whenever i get a triple I always use it twice, once on wave 6 and again on wave 14, and maybe if I'm lucky on 16. I think that instead of draining faster(because It's pretty fast already) maybe it could have a chance of breaking like the mwm, or it just breaks after 1 to 2 uses? I'd rather see this than have it go faster... just my thoughts though
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FodderFigure

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I don't care what you do with the flak, but don't mess with my triple. Yes, I ask for it if I don't see one in the first 4 waves, and when I get one it gets used when I'm backed into a corner or on a titan wave. As for lasting continuously with a flack 5, you must be a terrific shot, because it lasts about 30 seconds when I have 250 adrenalin and a flak 5.






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ck

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Joined: 01/20/2006 17:28:27
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Flak +5 is way too strong compared to other magic weps. at any given point, more than half the players will want to have a flak +5 over infinity (ppl have resupply), reflecting, sturdy, poison, piercing or rage. I mean think of the vast difference between a flak +5 and a rage 6-7. I even think some LW players will take flak +5 over lower vampiric flaks because they have vampirisim and flak +5 deals hell of a damage (and we all know how rare vampiric weps are). now, i'm not saying flak +5 is unbalanced or anything, it's just that such a strong wep shouldn't be distributed. i do like the fact that the group makes it thru more rounds with a flak +5, but i would enjoy a balanced game more than an easy one (also, i do help as much as and whenever i can as a LA player so don't blame for sounding selfish, i'd just like a better game)
BotFodder

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As much as I love the flak +5 (and link and mini 5), perhaps the % of extra damage could be adjusted to be more in line with the other weapons ...

Most are 1 or 2% more damage per plus (with maybe one or two types of weapons doing +3% - energy and inifinity, I think). The exceptions, of course, are the "damage", vorpal, and rage weapons, which all do 10% extra per plus. Now from what I understand, all the other weapons were once higher in what they did per plus. Perhaps, (rather than any raising of monster level), the damage, rage, and vorpal extra damage per plus should be reduced to 5% (and with rage, the damage you take should be reduced to 5% as well). Or, if monster levels are upped, the other weapons should be increased in what they do per plus.

However, if the damage weapons are made * weapons (whether the damage they might do is dropped or not), then there are a few * weapons (poison and maybe vampiric, most notably) that are * that should probably not be.

I have noted that it's more of a thing now, wanting a flak 5; it's the best weapon that can be cloned (and admittedly a damn good weapon) and all it really takes is for someone to have any plus flak and a LA player on for the flak 5 factories to start producting. But that's also part of the teamwork thing that Dru is trying to foster, I'd say.

It's possible that the chance of a triple popping out of a monster should be reduced (I saw two pop out of a bunny once - it was funny enough, but that I was using a vorpal shock would have been ultra funny if I had actually vorpaled the bunny). But personally I already consider myself lucky to find one, and it's usually only every three or four maps, and usually well into the map.

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Joined: 12/19/2004 20:59:52
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I personally dont feel the need to nerf the last good damage gun there is.
I can understand Druids intentions with lowering the per + damage on all the other weapons considering they had powerful magic effects, but a vanilla + weapon has nothing other than damage. If he wants to make it a one drop fine, but don't mess with the damage values.

*Actually the first point won't affect me at any rate because on our server we would continue to just use the regular damage weapons.*

And this is not the same as the mine layer issue. The mine layer was an issue because it was powerful AND it was a fire and forget weapon. At least with the Flak you have to aim and hit the target.

The only reason people are begging for the Flak +5 and Triple is because its the only thing they can do massive damage with. If they get changed and people start begging for the next most powerful combo are you all going to ask that that be changed as well? I realize the +5 weapons can be cloned but the triple cant so it seems plenty fair the way it is.
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Ya know...I find this thread sort of funny...up to a point. First, it is not just the flak+5. I know folks who go after link+5, rocket+5 (my favorite), etc. Secondly, I know it is not just Ooo which triggers this. I know when I am playing, lots of folks are asking if there is a +5 floating around out there.

Yes, it does at times seem insane to think of 15 people all dealing 500+ pts for a well placed shot. But in reality, how many have the triple, the adren, have it running and can keep it running. After all, it will tend to be self limiting since if 15 folks were doing this, bugs would be in short supply, adren would start running out, etc. I also know that when I have handed out a bunch of +5 flaks, my scores tend to be lower as everyone pounds away at the bugs. But overall, survivability goes up as well. So in these cases, I just try to come up with a +5 RL, as that seems to be the only way I will manage to halfway keep up with the likes of Ooo, Chy, 320, and even you Mystic.

Should the +5's be made non-copyable? Should the triple be made more rare and perhaps non-handable? I am of mixed feeling about both of these. Part of me thinks that perhaps making the triple arer for monsters to drop and making them more something of a LA player artifact (e.g. we don't drop them when we die) would be good. But then, it could also exacerbate a imballance I have been seeing growing. The same could also be said for making the +5's non-copyable. And who knows what this would do with team play. But I do think that making
the triple drain faster would once again add to the disadvantages faced by the LA player, who is already burdened by the lack of regen and vamp, complicated by other factors.

BTW...just to throw something back at folks which has been thrown at me a number of times... Myst, if you find it so non-challenging to have a Flak +5 and a triple, then why do it?? Or why don't you try playing a lower level player for a change, such as a LA class player.

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Joined: 11/25/2005 07:59:59
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Maybe add *, but worst thing to do would be to nerf the only damage weapon in the game.
Has anyone tough that sometime theres only 5-6 poeple playing, and its impossible to win without good weapons?

BotFodder wrote:
It's possible that the chance of a triple popping out of a monster should be reduced. 


Definatelly, i always see at least 4-5 tripples pop / Maps. Im pretty sure a good killer have a tripple by wave 5.
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Mystic wrote:
...and i dont play to get to the top score board ..ive been thier ..done that.. i play for the fun..

and yes it possible for low lvls to win maps without a flak 5 lol..
 


I don't play with the flak 5 much..I'll grab them sometimes but I think it's more of a challenge with a regular...Besides, if you have a regular, wouldn't that mean those titans chuckin' rocks at you would last longer, which means you get to shoot them more, which means more experience? I always thought so, could be wrong but I'm sure you can see how it COULD make sense....

as for getting to the top of the score board..I try but if I don't then oh well....

And it's true..you can win maps if your a low level..I've done it...once...

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In my opinion, a flak of energy +3 with triple dmg is better than a flak +5 with triple. With a flak of energy +3 and a triple, on the titan waves, my adrenaline never dips below 80, and my adrenaline stat is at the basic 100.
As for this problem of everybody wanting a flak +5 with triple? I havent noticed this, but that may be because i havent been playing much lately.

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Maybe the flak needs to not be allowed the +x damage modifier... I'll think on it.

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ck

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Maybe the flak needs to not be allowed the +x damage modifier... I'll think on it.  


i personally just suggest making +4 and +5 non-clonable, this way la players wouldn't max + flaks (they can give it back, but not give one to everyone) and if somebody is lucky enough to get a flak +3, then hey, they can pass that around, still a good wep and better damage than other magical weps damage-wise. this really is the simplest thing i can think of. i have a few (more radical) ideas about the triple, but i think the focus is flak at this point, triple seems to be doing fine for now.
it will also force people to use a variety of weps, which i assume is a good thing...

the question as someone already said I think, is what will be the next flak +5... flak of energy +3 is a probable candidate yet it probably wouldnt be as big of an issue as flak 5...
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An alternative would be to add more flying monsters. Flaks are not as good against those, especially on open maps.
Or up the monster difficulty so they dodge more. In both cases, it's the instant hit guns which fare best.
 
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