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SubClass Balance Issues in release 226  XML
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RoadKill v3.4

Wicked Sick!
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Joined: 06/03/2007 18:43:42
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Well it was a nice thought but anytime you give players advantages we will take full advantage of them. shrugs pleads guilty

it has been a long term issue with the regular AM to the point that serious nerfing took place to several abilities

I might suggest lowering the vamp for the EWM as a possible solution as it would slow them down a bit , needing to stop and heal, or play less aggressively .
Although it could lead to more aggressive play to compensate

Elite

Godlike
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Joined: 10/21/2007 13:24:50
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Every class can be played aggressively , even the Extreme Medic

WM: 383 Elite_Guard(AI)
AM: 381 Elite_Junkie(AI)
MM: 382 Elite_Medic(AI)
EN: 384 Elite_Engine(AI)

My skin: Elite(AI)


Most rocket launcher kills: 459
(DC)DEMONSLAYER

Wicked Sick!
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Joined: 03/18/2006 12:10:27
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Elite wrote:
Every class can be played aggressively , even the Extreme Medic 


And should be. Nothing irks me more than a bunch of timid players. For me, leave things alone and just as they are.

Let us not fool ourselves into thinking we went to the Moon because we are pioneers, or discoverers, or adventurers. We went to the Moon because it was the militaristically expedient thing to do. Neil deGrasse Tyson

Every job is a self-portrait of the person who did it....Autograph your work with excellence. Author Unknown

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UT3
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dom60

Wicked Sick!

Joined: 09/30/2006 16:10:39
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well with my am I used to kinda hide and try to make a decent weapon to pass out and try to stay alive but ever since I got over lvl 80 it was easier to stay alive so I'm more aggressive now

I may be getting old and falling apart but I can sure can raise Hell and have fun doing it!
Locrian

Rampage

Joined: 11/05/2010 16:07:35
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(DC)DEMONSLAYER wrote:

Elite wrote:
Every class can be played aggressively , even the Extreme Medic 


And should be. 


To each his own, I guess. These days when I play my medic, I'm usually extremely passive and make an effort to avoid killing monsters so the other players (usually low-levels) can get more xp, and I put all my focus on healing. Granted, it's not very lucrative since I'm not an Extreme Medic, but it helps the team out, so I don't mind.
Szlat

Wicked Sick!

Joined: 05/18/2005 18:32:41
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I need to boost the WM, and upping the advanced damage seemed a good way to do it.
But I agree we don't want to create a bigger problem with the EWMs.

The main point of the EWM is that it is weapon based and doesn't utilise adrenaline like the WM can. So how about we complete that and remove combos (booster, speed, etc) from the EWM?
(Would probably have to be done by zeroing the adrenaline every second, rather than trying to remove the ability)
(DC)DEMONSLAYER

Wicked Sick!
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Locrian wrote:

(DC)DEMONSLAYER wrote:

Elite wrote:
Every class can be played aggressively , even the Extreme Medic 


And should be. 


To each his own, I guess. These days when I play my medic, I'm usually extremely passive and make an effort to avoid killing monsters so the other players (usually low-levels) can get more xp, and I put all my focus on healing. Granted, it's not very lucrative since I'm not an Extreme Medic, but it helps the team out, so I don't mind. 


I've watched you and you are aggressive in trying to keep players healed-What Elite means is that no one should be hiding behind fortifications the entire map.

Let us not fool ourselves into thinking we went to the Moon because we are pioneers, or discoverers, or adventurers. We went to the Moon because it was the militaristically expedient thing to do. Neil deGrasse Tyson

Every job is a self-portrait of the person who did it....Autograph your work with excellence. Author Unknown

UT2004
LW-DEMONSLAYER-ACTIVE
LM-DEMONMEDIC-ACTIVE
LA-DEMONMAGIC-ACTIVE
LE-DEMONEER-ACTIVE
LG-DEMONJACK-ACTIVE

UT3
LW-DEMONSLAYERII
LM-KNIGHTMAGIC

My skin is Graah, a reincarnation of an ancient African warrior mixed with the soul of a lion,
download: http://www.disastrousconsequences.com/dcforum/posts/list/2843.page
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Locrian

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Joined: 11/05/2010 16:07:35
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Szlat wrote:

The main point of the EWM is that it is weapon based and doesn't utilise adrenaline like the WM can. So how about we complete that and remove combos (booster, speed, etc) from the EWM?
(Would probably have to be done by zeroing the adrenaline every second, rather than trying to remove the ability) 


Thematically, that would be perfect. The problem is that this would mean the EWM cannot use berserk, triple or globe, which would probably go too far and make it underpowered compared to the other WM subclasses. The advantage of having all maxed weapons, while good enough to tip the scales in its favor as things currently stand, is not enough on its own to compensate for not being able to berserk or use the triple, in terms of damage potential. And Vampire level 15 doesn't stop titan rocks like a globe can. So if you implemented that, you would probably need to add more features to EWM to partly compensate for the loss of adrenaline abilities, and make sure everything balances. Sounds like a headache.

Perhaps something on a smaller scale would work. The differences between EWM and WM are quite minor compared to the differences between, say, Berserker and WM. So the nerf to EWM should likewise be a minor one, but enough to balance it with the base class. Unfortunately I'm a bit flustered with college right now and can't think of any decent suggestions.
Szlat

Wicked Sick!

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Could compromise - leave them with the combos - berserk/booster etc - but remove adrenaline based artifacts - MWM, triple, globe, flight, teleport and spider?
A slight nerf, but not as much as removing berserk would be.
Locrian

Rampage

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Possibly. Remember, though, that Tank and Berserker are currently more powerful than EWM, so if one is to lose adrenaline-based artifacts then the other two should as well (IMO.)

I'll do some testing with EWM to see how things play out without globe or triple.
Szlat

Wicked Sick!

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Locrian wrote:
I'll do some testing with EWM to see how things play out without globe or triple. 
EDIT: But remember with the proposed advanced damage increase, the EWM will be getting +10% on damage. Will removing the artifacts maintain the EWM at its current state?

Tank, Berserk and Skilled Weapons do not have the advanced damage ability, and hence will not be getting the +10% bonus, so probably do not need the nerf.
Locrian

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Well, the triple does greatly expand one's damage potential, so I would imagine that losing it might zero out the effects of the damage increase. Only played twice so far, but once was with an Extreme monster master and a host of engineers linking a turret, and I think I was scoring closer to WM. Will post more after further tests.

Tank, Berserk and Skilled Weapons do not have the advanced damage ability, and hence will not be getting the +10% bonus, so probably do not need the nerf. 

As stated in another post, even with the increase in ADB, Berserker and Tank will have a 207% (close range) and 15% advantage, respectively, on EWM and WM in terms of base DPS. Removing the triple from EWM will likely put it closer in line with the base class, but more out of balance with Berserker and Tank. The fact that those two are already far more devastating when running a routine berserk + triple combo similarly puts them far ahead of EWM in terms of killing power; not allowing EWM to do the same would mean it's completely outmatched on titan waves (though that's already the case against a berserker going berserk.)
RoadKill v3.4

Wicked Sick!
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Joined: 06/03/2007 18:43:42
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(DC)DEMONSLAYER wrote:

Elite wrote:
Every class can be played aggressively , even the Extreme Medic 


And should be. Nothing irks me more than a bunch of timid players. For me, leave things alone and just as they are.  


ahh for the days of yore ,no camping server when there were no "Bases"
dom60

Wicked Sick!

Joined: 09/30/2006 16:10:39
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RoadKill v3.4 wrote:

(DC)DEMONSLAYER wrote:

Elite wrote:
Every class can be played aggressively , even the Extreme Medic 


And should be. Nothing irks me more than a bunch of timid players. For me, leave things alone and just as they are.  


ahh for the days of yore ,no camping server when there were no "Bases"
 


LOL Road!
[RMD]RAPIER

Killing Spree

Joined: 08/12/2008 18:09:15
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I don't know if this is the right place to post it, but here goes. I noticed sence the last rev I no longer have the lighting rod on my AM/ENG hb. was this an intentional change or something over looked.

I didn't use it a loty but I did use it. Whats up.
 
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