Monsters XP

KitFox wrote:

(By the Way: Nothing breaks my heart more than seeing someone killing a Nali with Flak or Rocket Launcher lol)

I seem to remember reading somewhere that there is a problem with nalis giving xp for damage. For most monsters, whenever you damage them, you get xp for the damage. Then the player that gets the final kill gets 1 xp. I think this damage transfer was handled by a fake monster weapon. Because nalis carry weapons, this damage transfer didn't work, so you would only get one point for a nali, ever, regardless of what score they were configured with.

If this is true, then the choice is

use a flak/rl to take out the nali, and get 1 point

headshot with a sniper/lightning, and get the 1 point plus 10 from the invasion spree mutator.
Plus with 8 headshots, you get an extra 100 xp/adrenaline for head hunter. So listen to [KitFox].

320 wrote:

As for this whole selfless/selfish stuff, I see this thread bordering on an issue of etiquette. I don't like people assuming people should play one way or another.

Hmmm... I read this thing through a couple of times and don't see what you are seeing. The only thing close are statements that regard a low level player staying alive TO aid in high wave completions. More a discussion on a specific tactic than anything else.

320 wrote:

I play the way I want to play within the rules and you should, too. Sometimes I help the team, sometimes I help myself. It's what I choose to do at the time.

It is your choice. No one said anything anywhere that states otherwise.

Chyster wrote:

320 wrote:

As for this whole selfless/selfish stuff, I see this thread bordering on an issue of etiquette. I don't like people assuming people should play one way or another.

Hmmm... I read this thing through a couple of times and don't see what you are seeing. The only thing close are statements that regard a low level player staying alive TO aid in high wave completions. More a discussion on a specific tactic than anything else.

320 wrote:

I play the way I want to play within the rules and you should, too. Sometimes I help the team, sometimes I help myself. It's what I choose to do at the time.

It is your choice. No one said anything anywhere that states otherwise.

Maybe it's more a feeling than anything else, Chyster. But I got the same feeling when requests to players to turn off auto-taunts went from polite, friendly requests to "auto-taunts are not allowed on this server"-style demands. Even admins were putting up in-game messages. All the while, to the best of my knowledge, auto-taunts are not against the rules. I think Druid even stated it explicitly.

Like I said, maybe just a feeling...

Oh, ok, feelings are accepted here. And yes, there are no rules about using auto-taunts. It's an annoyance more than anything. But, anybody can keep them on that would like to if they can handle the in game brow beating.

Well, yes, I understand that the low-levels are staying alive so the high-level players have it easier, and though this is great for teamwork, it does sort of defeat the purpose of the level adjustment. I didn't see it that way at the moment, but I see what you're saying about selfless and all.

My other computer has the source code for DruidsRPG, so I'll edit this post in a bit.

I still think the best solution to this problem would be to cap the monster level to 100. Then the lowbies could last a few seconds longer than before. And the high level people will still achieve a win, giving the lowbies their 80 points. It's a win-win situation for everyone.

Except for whatever the annoying factor is that I didn't think of that would mess up the whole thing making this the worst possible situation for everyone. I always hate that factor.

The Malcolm Effect. Yes, the only problem with making things a win-win situation is that it is win-win-lose, lowbies-highbies-monsters. As the players become stronger and stronger, the monsters will eventually become powerless. I mean, level 100 is still pretty hefty, but do you understand what I mean? Another application of the Malcolm Effect.

Cazius wrote:

I still think the best solution to this problem would be to cap the monster level to 100. Then the lowbies could last a few seconds longer than before. And the high level people will still achieve a win, giving the lowbies their 80 points. It's a win-win situation for everyone.

Except for whatever the annoying factor is that I didn't think of that would mess up the whole thing making this the worst possible situation for everyone. I always hate that factor.

I don't disagree with a level cap. I think two or three more difficult waves with level caps would help the server overall. That's a programming thing, though. What makes simple sense in a gameplay context might not be so simple to make reality in the context of programming. I leave that to Druid and the others. And remember, all of this is mostly a volunteer effort for these people.

But at the same time, people should keep contributing their ideas. There have been a lot of good and bad ideas lately, but the good (and possible) ideas will rise, and may become reality. Many have already.

Speaking to your second paragraph, I don't mean to inhibit low or mid-tier players from speaking their mind. I know I can come off that way. I only mean to present a different perspective, based on my experience. I know always saying "That won't work..." can seem condescending or discouraging. That's not how I mean it. Always speak what's on your mind. It might be wrong? Who cares?

I admire Chyster's ability to be level-headed. I try, but that's not always me. So take this as you will.

With regards to this level 16 stuff, well, it's all in the strat thread. I, and others, have explained all the basics (and then some).. Get your level up, practice, watch others... you'll see how to win wave 16. It's not so "no-option" as it seems.

You'll do that, and then you'll ask yourself, "so what's next?"

That's when you'll either decide you've had enough or you want more. When you decide you want more, well, that's where I come in.

I started the strat thread with the idea of helping people get better, making people realize that it's not just a flak 5 and a triple, that things aren't so cut and dry as that. That's my "team" contribution. We put the water out there, who's gonna take a drink?

In the game, I'll keep bustin it up. Make no mistake, I want you to challenge me, I welcome it! And anybody that's playing when I'm on deck, full tilt knows they gotta work for it. No one wins for free, not loaded artifacts or loaded weapons, nor high level. Man, I've been teaching that over and over since about level 60.

I want you to teach me something. I want you to show me where I'm wrong. The only thing you can do by beating me is to tell me I need to get better and try harder. You do that through your play, not your talk.

And when I get rocked, it's all good, you can read all about it in the strat thread. I'll say, "here's how I got spanked, step by step." And then everyone will know. You'll get better, or you won't.

Your choice.

Wave 16 is merely the beginning, guys.

"Wave 17"? That's all for you to make of it what you will.

It all depends on your skill. Go for broke.

It would be great if someone could figure out how to code RPG so that the monsters are based on each persons level to that person all the time. So if a monster starts fighting a low level, they are weak, but the second they turn and fire at a high level they start to hit hard.

I bet that would be fun to code up.

That actually wouldn't be difficult to do, considering DB and DR for monsters is calculated on hit, so it's not a permanent stat. Just modify the level based on the player's. It would actually be quite easy, me thinks. In fact, it would work really well, because the damage wouldn't be calculated upon firing a projectile weapon, so like, a rocket aimed at a high-level player wouldn't do omondo damage to a lowbie who just happened to walk by. Anyhow, the code for it is in CalculateNetDamage() in RPGRules.uc (UT2004RPG), somewhere in there. Scan through and I'm sure you'll find some conspicuous "MonsterLevel"s and stuff.

What's the use of leveling if you cant reap the benifits? I see you're attempting to make everyone equal in the guise of "wouldn't it be fun", but why not just give everyone the same weapon then?

Your right FodderFigure. That makes the playing field far too equalized. If you think of it from a reality point of view----

Two bull fighters in a ring with one bull. The bull is not going to take it easy on the one with the least experience. The bull has the same power potential and will be bent on grinding them both to dust.

In game, it harder as when that least experienced fighter does get caught, the monster then gets an increase in power to match the next level of fighter.

I think I like it this way. You don't get experience from a box in the mail, or from a faucet, folks need to work their way up. That's why its called experience.

Yes, and see, what with the bull example, that's what there was before any RPG. You had varying skill levels of players, and monsters that always had the same strength, and if you could make it through, you were revered as an insanely good Invasionist. Now that abilities and stats and all that jazz is around, it's more difficult to incorporate that sense.

I think it would work well to remove the 'lowest player modifier' entirely, and stick with the solid DB/DR bonus of Wave*PointsPerLevel. That's 112 DB and DR on wave 16, so a maxed player would do (80-112) = 84% damage and take (112-50)*0.005 = 131% damage. That's a maxed player. A no-DB/DR player would deal 44%, and be returned 156%. I dunno, I like it, but that's me. If you think they're too weak, increase the point multiplier. Just keep it linear.

That last post seems a little extreme to me.

I don't mind dying when I screw up, put myself in a bad place, or even when I'm blindsided because I havent payed enough attention.

It is entirely something else to guarantee that I won't be able to kill anything on level 10 or above.

I like that the game is hard. I want to be challanged.

I look forward to gaining power and levels.

Ahh hmm... I need to check if the level modification is added and multiplied or just multiplied (eg. *0.25 or *1.25).