Latest posts for the topic "Extreme AM Report"

Extreme AM Report

Ratar_Killer — GMT

Some points about the Extreme AM: 1. It just doesn't feel EXTREME. 2. Without an energy weapon Adren disapears to quickly. 3. -10 adren for missed bolts shots is like losing bullets for missed shot (re when playing as a surrport charater) 4. When playing as a surrporting role, there must be a base to be effective. 5. most kills go to other players because bolt take monsters down very low and with all the other bullets flying around a glancing mini bullet takes the kill. 6. No denial and no advanced damage bonus means death after first death for rest of the game. (maybe just spawn with an energy flak like engingeer spawn link that would feel more extreme) As a whole I think the concept of the AM being a sedinarary charater are wrong. AM's have way less damage reduction then any other charater, but have the potenial to do great damage, in the thick of it, but only for a short time. Then it's RUN AWAY and recharge. AM's take a greater risk running into battle but never can stand toe to toe for any leghth of time. I believe that makes the charater balanced. My version of an Extreme AM would be AM with hybrid weapons, more quickfoot, triple jumps, vamperism, rod and bolt - with no penetly for misses. I would give up rod for Extreme AM in place of Advanced Damage Reduction.

Extreme AM Report

Szlat — GMT

Thanks for the feedback Ratar.

Ratar_Killer wrote:

1. It just doesn't feel EXTREME.

I can't make it stronger than any other class/subclass, but I certainly do not want it weaker.

Ratar_Killer wrote:

2. Without an energy weapon Adren disapears to quickly.

If this character is going to be a wizard/mage, then I don't want to make it dependent on an energy weapon. Perhaps Surge 4, and Drip 5 (with drip still working while artifacts are active). Should have loads then. Since everyone will insist on using the Rod, I'll up the power of that for the extreme AM as well.

Ratar_Killer wrote:

3. -10 adren for missed bolts shots is like losing bullets for missed shot (re when playing as a surrport charater)

Ok, I'll change it to be like Beam - with a standard -10 cost dropping to -5 for Extreme AM.

Ratar_Killer wrote:

5. most kills go to other players because bolt take monsters down very low and with all the other bullets flying around a glancing mini bullet takes the kill.

Beam is much better than Bolt: 14 damage/adren rather than 6 for an Extreme AM. What about any of the blasts? Did you try those? Do we just need more offensive artifacts, or better tweaking of the ones we have to make them useable?

Ratar_Killer wrote:

6. No denial and no advanced damage bonus means death after first death for rest of the game. (maybe just spawn with an energy flak like engingeer spawn link that would feel more extreme)

Perhaps need to spawn with maxed adrenaline, like the WM spawns with max ammo.

Ratar_Killer wrote:

As a whole I think the concept of the AM being a sedinarary charater are wrong. AM's have way less damage reduction then any other charater, but have the potenial to do great damage, in the thick of it, but only for a short time. Then it's RUN AWAY and recharge. AM's take a greater risk running into battle but never can stand toe to toe for any leghth of time. I believe that makes the charater balanced. My version of an Extreme AM would be AM with hybrid weapons, more quickfoot, triple jumps, vamperism, rod and bolt - with no penetly for misses. I would give up rod for Extreme AM in place of Advanced Damage Reduction.

Druid's initial aim for the AM was one that stands back to fight - WMs have the Vampire to keep them in the centre of the battle. the AMs were to take out from a distance. Which is why they have limited protection and no health regen - they need to avoid damage. The type of character you are suggesting is more like the WM/AM hybrid. Food for thought anyway. Thanks.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Thè-Hättêr — GMT

i dont know how much this could help since i havent use it ( i have no requirements) so far i have read that every high player AM say he just dont have enough adren anmd they feel other players are taking the kills right? just make stronger items for LA in extr AM, no penalty lost for beam or make let say a item that AM can use it with no adren but cant be used in "x" time. let say the noAdrenBeam artifact, AM can shoot it every 5 seconds dont deal Adren and controled damage.. this is not by any meaning an out of control item, since admin can control, the X times per second, and fix the damage. Ams will feel that even if they run out of damage things will be fine they sill have a "weapon"

Re:Extreme AM Report

Dracos — GMT

What about any of the blasts? Did you try those? Do we just need more offensive artifacts, or better tweaking of the ones we have to make them useable?

I think more tweaking would be needed. The majority of the blasts are just too situational to use. Many maps are just not set up right to make any good use out of em. Mega Blast is a waste only a couple of mobs, Psn's only really good on titan waves or a big group of mobs right outside of a base. Havent ever used Freeze yet. Repulsion is really only used on like 2-3 maps. I've gotten a few ideas for artifacts that could help the extreme AM. Energy Leech Artifact Cost: 0 Adrenaline Desc.: Does 0 damage to a targeted monster but while this active, gives the User X amount adrenaline / second as long as user does not outrange the mob and the mob is alive. Basically its the EAM's form of an Energy Weapon. They target a mob and turn the artifact on, it gives them a constant stream of Adrenaline as long as the target is alive and the EAM is sort of close to it. Graphic could be like a white bolt connecting the EAM and the monster. Adrenaline Sphere Cost: 10-14 Adrenaline / Sec Desc.: All players in the sphere of effect gain 1 Adrenaline / Sec. Each person affected grants the user 1xp. Its like the Medic/DD/Invul Spheres but adrenaline. The AM plays a little support and boosts his team up. Graphic is an orange/white sphere. Chain Lightning Cost: See below Cooldown: ??s Desc.: Does 5 Damage per Adrenaline Used up to a Max of 100 on the main target. Target must be targeted (like Beam). Also Jumps to a nearby monster in range doing up to 70% of the damage done to the last target. (This costs 0 Adrenaline to the user). Jumps to a total of 4 monsters. So a 20 Adrenaline Used shot would do 100 to the targeted monster, 70 to the 2nd, 49 to the 3rd, and 34 to the 4th. The 3 "jumps" dont cost anything extra. It places it between the Bolt and Beam in terms of Damage to Adrenaline and its weaker then beam since it jumps but stronger then bolt (since bolt doesnt have to be aimed. Also this was proposed before but ill do it again. Adrenal Injection Cost: 25 Adrenaline / Sec Desc.: While this artifact is on, Restores Health equal to the Adrenaline spent * 1.5 up to base max for self only. When turned off, user loses 2 health per second for 25 seconds. This restores health at a very quick rate compared to booster but as the "Adrenaline Injection" wears off, the gained health is slowly lost. Good for those moments when your at <50 health, no medics availble and no health packs around.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Thè-Hättêr — GMT

Thè-Hättêr wrote:

i dont know how much this could help since i havent use it ( i have no requirements) so far i have read that every high player AM say he just dont have enough adren anmd they feel other players are taking the kills right? just make stronger items for LA in extr AM, no penalty lost for beam or make let say a item that AM can use it with no adren but cant be used in "x" time. let say the noAdrenBeam artifact, AM can shoot it every 5 seconds dont deal Adren and controled damage.. this is not by any meaning an out of control item, since admin can control, the X times per second, and fix the damage. Ams will feel that even if they run out of damage things will be fine they sill have a "weapon"

insted of real damage why not that weapon leech Adren?

Re:Extreme AM Report

Szlat — GMT

Dracos wrote:

What about any of the blasts? Did you try those? Do we just need more offensive artifacts, or better tweaking of the ones we have to make them useable?
I think more tweaking would be needed. The majority of the blasts are just too situational to use. Many maps are just not set up right to make any good use out of em. Mega Blast is a waste only a couple of mobs, Psn's only really good on titan waves or a big group of mobs right outside of a base. Havent ever used Freeze yet. Repulsion is really only used on like 2-3 maps.

Perhaps we need a smaller version of the MegaBlast (MiniBlast?) - only costs say 15-20 adren (for extreme AM) and explodes with damage at the core say 200.

Dracos wrote:

Adrenaline Sphere...Its like the Medic/DD/Invul Spheres but adrenaline. The AM plays a little support and boosts his team up...

Not sure. It is a lot of adrenaline for a AM to use up.

Dracos wrote:

Chain Lightning....

I think this one could be the one to go for. Would put an interesting dynamic on things.

Dracos wrote:

Also this was proposed before but ill do it again. Adrenal Injection Cost: 25 Adrenaline / Sec Desc.: While this artifact is on, Restores Health equal to the Adrenaline spent * 1.5 up to base max for self only.

Druid has historically always been against AMs using adrenaline to get health, so I am not convinced it would get his vote.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Dracos — GMT

Szlat wrote:

Dracos wrote:

Also this was proposed before but ill do it again. Adrenal Injection Cost: 25 Adrenaline / Sec Desc.: While this artifact is on, Restores Health equal to the Adrenaline spent * 1.5 up to base max for self only.
Druid has historically always been against AMs using adrenaline to get health, so I am not convinced it would get his vote.

Oh I know, just putting it up again. Doesnt hurt right :P How about the reverse then. Adrenaline Injection Cost: 25% of your current Health Cooldown: 120s Desc: Gives you adrenaline equal to 25% of your current health. I.E. 450 health Max = 112 Health Cost and gives 112 Adrenaline. Its ment to be used in one of those situations where your low on adrenaline and a bunch of mobs is coming. Sure a medic can heal you back up but the long CD would prevent abuse of it.

Re:Extreme AM Report

synchronyze — GMT

Dracos wrote:

Energy Leech Artifact Cost: 0 Adrenaline Desc.: Does 0 damage to a targeted monster but while this active, gives the User X amount adrenaline / second as long as user does not outrange the mob and the mob is alive. Adrenaline Injection Cost: 25% of your current Health Cooldown: 120s Desc: Gives you adrenaline equal to 25% of your current health. I.E. 450 health Max = 112 Health Cost and gives 112 Adrenaline.

I agree with the balance of these as well. The former means you have a mob basically sitting on you in order to get additional adren. Perhaps it could even be a static ability that gives you 1 adren/sec/enemy within a certain distance (probably a fairly short distance, and maybe toggle off while running rod to persuade use of other artifacts). This would help scale damage when swarmed by skaarj.

Extreme AM Report

Ratar_Killer — GMT

Szlat wrote:

Druid's initial aim for the AM was one that stands back to fight - WMs have the Vampire to keep them in the centre of the battle. the AMs were to take out from a distance. Which is why they have limited protection and no health regen - they need to avoid damage. The type of character you are suggesting is more like the WM/AM hybrid. Food for thought anyway. Thanks.

I know that was the original concept but I believe that the ENG class seems to cover this description much better. Now that AM has been in for sometime, I don’t believe anyone plays this character the way that was first intended, but it has defiantly become a favorite to those of us who play AM consistently. I also think that you cannot play an AM the same way you play a WM, its two different mindsets. I know you put a lot of time and effort into this, and you are much appreciated for it. I also think that your hands are a little tied to the description that was given to this character some 3+ years ago. If Dru or Shan are reading this post could you please let Szlat and the community know if you are set firm on the original description of the AM or if there is some flexibility. Thanks.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Ratar_Killer — GMT

Ok i'm getting used to playing Extreme AM, Things are looking up, I have 3 things to say: 1. Denial 2. Denial 3. Denial and/or Spawn with energy or piercing artifact. After first death recovery to get back to where you were is very very difficult. ok more then 3 things: 4. We need a visual countdown for next blast, maybe like structure countdowns 5. 100 adren for blast makes it so worth it :thumbup: (BTW, in my first post I said Bolt when I ment Beam)

Re:Extreme AM Report

Szlat — GMT

Ratar_Killer wrote:

Ok i'm getting used to playing Extreme AM, Things are looking up, .... Denial... Denial...3. Denial...After first death recovery to get back to where you were is very very difficult.

Changed so the Extreme AM respawns with full adrenaline. I'm am still trying to keep off weapon dependence :)

Ratar_Killer wrote:

. We need a visual countdown for next blast, maybe like structure countdowns

It would be useful to know. Not sure what the best way of doing it is. The Engineer timer isn't perfect, and to have one per artifact? The big problem is replicating it back to the client.

Ratar_Killer wrote:

100 adren for blast makes it so worth it

Good. I suggested in one thread a cheaper smaller blast to use as well - I suppose more akin to a flak shell rather than a redeemer - would that be of any use?

Ratar_Killer wrote:

(BTW, in my first post I said Bolt when I ment Beam)

Ahh. For an Extreme AM the beam is only 5 for a miss (I believe)

Re:Extreme AM Report

Ratar_Killer — GMT

Szlat wrote:

It would be useful to know. Not sure what the best way of doing it is. The Engineer timer isn't perfect, and to have one per artifact? The big problem is replicating it back to the client.
Ratar_Killer wrote:

100 adren for blast makes it so worth it
Good. I suggested in one thread a cheaper smaller blast to use as well - I suppose more akin to a flak shell rather than a redeemer - would that be of any use?

The Blast power, i think, is spot on, The timer would make a big difference. Not sure about a smaller blast, but I try it out. I am totally leaning toward a energy flak spawn but leave resupply at 2. ( we could try it at resupply 1 and see how it goes) This way no time or waves wasted on making getting weapon, but not enough resupply to keep it going endlessly.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Ratar_Killer — GMT

I played a few rounds the other night with just shield and beam, It went pretty well. 200+ beam kills score around 1300-1400 I forget but second place to Elite. Going to play a little more that way tonight and wiil try to get better numbers.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Ratar_Killer — GMT

Szlat hold off on any Extreme AM changes, I have gotten a hold on this charater and it is pretty cool. No Denial needed, no energy wep needed, no piercing wep needed. aren gains are fine. I played many games now with just shield and beam and score in the 1500-2000 range with 2K+ xp per game. No more worrying about repawn with out weapon. The only problem I see is target size, fly very hard to line up, but not a problem, but titans & queens are big enough to go down fast, maybe to fast. However Rapier, who is half my level, but an excellent AM, was fighting tooth and nail for 1st place, we finished 1 xp apart. I think this shows balence "as is". You really just have to embrace changing your game play to get the most out of it. Having a great time, Thank you ^:)^

Re:Extreme AM Report

Thè-Hättêr — GMT

can the miniblast be named fireball?

Re:Extreme AM Report

Szlat — GMT

Thanks for persevering Ratar.

Ratar_Killer wrote:

Szlat hold off on any Extreme AM changes,...However Rapier, who is half my level, but an excellent AM, was fighting tooth and nail for 1st place, we finished 1 xp apart. I think this shows balence "as is".

Thanks for that. It looks like a small boost is required. However, based on the feedback so far, the changes I had submitted are:

Ghost 3, like all Extremes

Start with maxed adrenaline

Drip 5, giving 3 adren a sec

Surge 4

Rod now does more damage for the Extreme AM (1.3 times normal)

Drip works with artifacts running I think these may be too much - I think the surge 4 will need to go back to surge 3, but I think lets leave it with drip 5. I presume there were still lots of times you ran out of adrenaline?

Ratar_Killer wrote:

The only problem I see is target size, fly very hard to line up, but not a problem, but titans & queens are big enough to go down fast, maybe too fast.

To get rid of flies, I often retreat away from the big monsters then rod them (or bolt) - you can't get them with the beam. EDIT: Oh, and remember a poison weapon is really useful for titan waves - you get less from the initial damage of the weapon, but the poison effect is exactly the same.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Elite — GMT

Sorry but I would be hesitant to add more than necessary, I scored over 3k earlier today so I think yes it might need a little boost but not that much. Surge 4 is overkill... I don't think drip 5 is necessary when you already start off with full adrenaline. And surprisingly I did not need anymore adrenaline than what I had I always seemed to have a constant supply. And I don't think the rod needs to be stronger, beam is strong enough. With the addition of ghost 3 and full adrenaline at spawning I think I could call this subclass pretty much balanced. It just requires a different playing style, one without weapons.

Re:Extreme AM Report

[RMD]RAPIER — GMT

However Rapier, who is half my level, but an excellent AM, was fighting tooth and nail for 1st place, we finished 1 xp apart. I think this shows balence "as is".

Ratar is correct, I was fighting tooth nail to stay in front of him and the only reason I was staying in points range is I had a Energy Flak #4. If I have this flak I can hang with most (Except Elite) through wave 14. After 14 it's time to hide. It also depends on the quality and quanty of Medics and engineers on at the time. This map we had some great Medics and Engineer support. My AM is at 187 And I'm work hard to get to 200 so I can try out the new sub classes. I do like the Idea of spawing with an Energy Flak, But I also realize it's probably not going to happen. The Flak is one of the few weapons that max resupply can keep up with. I had an energy 4 Link the following map and using burst fire it was only good for about 30 seconds. The rocket is another but it kills me faster than the monsters do. On My AM I have never used the the blast, or beam artifacts and as Ratar stated the repulshion is only good for maps that you can blast monsters off of. I can burn 2000 Adrin trying to make weapons I prefer and never make the ones I want. I've had match were I made the same weapon 6 time with various different weapons in between an not get what I need. Is there a way to lower the randomizer so the energy will come up a little more often. It seems even the percing come up much more often but I my level the engery is prefered to me. One other thing, can you get rid of the message screen that comes up in you face after you ghost. It's hell to ghost into a furball and not be able to see what around you or coming at you. Thanks For the Great Server.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Szlat — GMT

[RMD wrote:

RAPIER]I can burn 2000 Adrin trying to make weapons I prefer and never make the ones I want. I've had match were I made the same weapon 6 time with various different weapons in between an not get what I need. Is there a way to lower the randomizer so the energy will come up a little more often. It seems even the percing come up much more often but I my level the engery is prefered to me.

I am not sure, but I think the current chances may be:

66% chance - No magic

4% chance - damage

3% chance - Sturdy,Poison,Luck,Protection

2% chance - Healing,Force,Penetrating,Energy,Piercing

1% chance - Vampire,Vorpal,Infinity,Freezing,Knockback,Quickfoot,NullEntropy,Rage,Reflection (% values are rounded up - the 1% is actually 1/35 of 0.33333 ) But these are up to Druid to change, as increasing the chance of vampire, energy or piercing will affect the gameplay.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Dracos — GMT

Szlat wrote:

[RMD wrote:

RAPIER]I can burn 2000 Adrin trying to make weapons I prefer and never make the ones I want. I've had match were I made the same weapon 6 time with various different weapons in between an not get what I need. Is there a way to lower the randomizer so the energy will come up a little more often. It seems even the percing come up much more often but I my level the engery is prefered to me.
I am not sure, but I think the current chances may be:
66% chance - No magic
4% chance - damage
3% chance - Sturdy,Poison,Luck,Protection
2% chance - Healing,Force,Penetrating,Energy,Piercing
1% chance - Vampire,Vorpal,Infinity,Freezing,Knockback,Quickfoot,NullEntropy,Rage,Reflection (% values are rounded up - the 1% is actually 1/35 of 0.33333 ) But these are up to Druid to change, as increasing the chance of vampire, energy or piercing will affect the gameplay.

With the MWM the No Magic is cut from the list. That puts Energy at 2/34 (Cant be Vorpal) or almost 6% Chance for Energy Flak

Re:Extreme AM Report

Elite — GMT

So what are you going to do with the Lightning Chain? Can we conclude that this subclass is thus balanced at the moment? Can we begin discussing on the Extreme WM and Engineer?

Re:Extreme AM Report

Szlat — GMT

Elite wrote:

So what are you going to do with the Lightning Chain? Can we conclude that this subclass is thus balanced at the moment? Can we begin discussing on the Extreme WM and Engineer?

I have most of the Chain Lightning implemented. The only thing left is changing the color of the bolt. Unfortunately, this is more difficult as it requires an extra download package to be created with the textures in - so I think it will either be blue or not in the short term. Currently on my agenda are:

Try and sort out a black bar in medic awareness and engineer awareness for players with HardCore

Investigate getting a timer on individual artifacts for AMs

Investigate the Ion Turret for Turret Specialists

Implement Chain Lightning and FireBall for the Extreme AMs. These will be about the same or less power as the existing beam, so shouldn't affect balance - just give more variety and fun.

Finish the auto-pilot turrets for the Turret Specialist

Sort out the out of bounds in vehicles and turrets

I have a note of a bug with the Link Turret messing up the artifact list etc which I haven't investigated

There is a bug in Loaded Engineer when you buy all the levels in one go, under the artifacts it only lists one point. Then I have on my list that Extreme WM and Extreme Engineer and perhaps Extreme Medic all require something extra. I am quite happy to discuss those - most of the above problems will not be quick fixes. But if there are quick things to get done for the Extremes, then I can get those done first. I have no idea when the next build will be. I do know Druid and Shantara are very busy for the next couple of weeks. I don't know if Druid will find time for another build - which is why I am trying to cram as much as possible in as quickly as possible - just in case.

Re:Extreme AM Report

dom60 — GMT

need me to crack a whip your way??? :))

Re:Extreme AM Report

[RMD]RAPIER — GMT

Quick question on the auto turret, When the auto turret is ingauged will anay body be able to jump in and take over will the turret master be the only person allow?

Re:Extreme AM Report

Szlat — GMT

This really ought to be on a different thread, but I will respond here for consistency.

[RMD wrote:

RAPIER]Quick question on the auto turret, When the auto turret is ingauged will any body be able to jump in and take over will the turret master be the only person allow?

Quick question, but not a quick answer. The original idea was that Engineers would be able to kick off a "targetting sphere", which would essentially convert all unmanned turrets into sentinels. However, I feel that will cause arguments with Engineers wanting to use their turrets auto-targetting, but other players getting into them. Imagine using 100 adrenaline to kick off the targetting, and then people get into your turrets. I do not want those "discussions". In addition, I am reluctant to change turrets (which are manually aimed) into sentinels (which independently choose their own targets). If this is not available to just Turret Specialists it allows Engineers to have sentinels and more sentinels - not good. If it is just Turret Specialists, why are we creating sentinels for them? So my current idea is to not re-use empty turrets, but to have distinct "unmanned turrets" which the turret specialist can spawn. These turrets are small, and cannot be manned. They are directed by the Turret Specialist. So the Turret Specialist spawns say an energy turret, and 3 of these unmanned turrets. He gets in the energy turret, and whatever he fires at, the unmanned turrets also fire at.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Szlat — GMT

Ok, let me explain a bit about what I am thinking of for the Chain Lightning. The basic thought is like the beam, but chains out to adjacent monsters after it has hit. So...

Since the Extreme AM is approx balanced, the Chain Lightning cannot be more powerful than the Beam. Just different.

Generally hitting three or less monsters should be less effective than the Beam. Hitting 4 or more monsters could do more damage than the Beam

Assume the Chain Lightning costs 25 adrenaline. For 25 adrenaline, the Beam will do 25*14 = 350 damage. However the beam is limited to 200 damage per shot. So the chain lightning should not hit the victim for more than 200 damage, and should do about 350 damage for 25 adrenaline, if there are 3-4 monsters hit. So, that is what I am working towards. After hitting the first monster for x damage, the lightning chains to adjacent monsters within a certain "step" distance, and does a fraction of x damage to them. The lightning then steps again, with a smaller step max, and does even less damage. There has to be a threshold at which the chain stops jumping. So, assume the initial damage is 120, the step distance is 400 (about 8 yards or metres), and assume the distance and damage drop by 0.5 each step. Assume the chain stops below 20 damage. Hit one monster - do 120 damage. Hit a monster with another monster just in range. Target monster hit for 120, other monster hit for 120*0.5=60, giving a total of 180. Hit a monster, with two monsters just in range on opposite sides. Total is 120 + 60 + 60 = 240. Now assume the 2 monsters are half the distance away. Once they are hit, they bounce the hit back to the original victim, as they are within the 4 yard step range. So we do 120 + 2*60 +2*30 = 300 damage. Hit a monster with 2 monsters standing right next to it. First Monster hit for 120. Next 2 monsters hit for 60 each. The chain then jumps from each monster to each other monster. So the initial target monster gets hit twice for 30 each, and the others get hit once each. Then it stops, because the next damage would be below 20. So we have 120 + 2*60 + 4*30 = 360 So, the break even point with the Beam is when you get 2 or more monsters within a 2 yard radius circle. Or of course have more monsters in a bigger radius.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Szlat — GMT

Ok, so I have the Chain Lightning done, and will submit to cvs tonight. Configuration as above - inital damage 120, step distance 400, step deterioration 0.5, 25 adren for the Extreme AM. The lightning color is still blue. When I do the fireball, if I have to add extra textures etc for that, then I will change the chain lightning to red. Keybinding will be SelectChain

Re:Extreme AM Report

Szlat — GMT

So, next the artifact timers. My initial thought was to do it the same way the Engineer one works, for consistency. So you see a number that counts down next to the artifact. However, for the AM we would need a counter per artifact, rather than just one counter. So if you had just used the MegaBlast, when you display the MegaBlast artifact icon you would see the seconds next to it, if you moved onto a different artifact e.g. Triple then you would see no counter. However, I am concerned about how that will get used, as people normally just use the keybindings to select artifacts, and don't spend their time scrolling the artifacts to see which timers have expired. So, as an alternative, it may be possible to use a different area on screen, and for each "recharging" artifact, display the icon and a timer next to it. So you might have numerous artifacts showing, each with their own timers. Against that is the thought that it is really only the MegaBlast that has a significant timer. The max for Bolt/Beam/Chain is 5 secs, and given that the timer is likely to have around half a second inaccuracy, I am not sure how useful it would be? You would just end up with icons on the screen for a fraction of a second - could be distracting. Thoughts?

Re:Extreme AM Report

Thè-Hättêr — GMT

mm i have an idea... however i will need help for my english this might be hard to explain.. why not a "bar" call it whatever you want it. could be just a number. now megablast take let say 60% of the bar. and u cant use it again, at least until you wait few feconds and the bar fill at least with the 20% you need, now you can use megablast again ( you have a 100% bar, use megablast (100-60=40) therefore you need 20% to use megablast again), if you want to use megablast again, you need now to wait until 60% is in the "bar" to put it into another words, if you played those oldschool games where you had a machinegun and you couldnt use it at all time because it "overheat".. this is the same.. now as an aditional, i feel this only useful for megablast or anyother blast, poison blast freeze blast, fireball etc(maybe chainlight). because bolt and beam have such a low timers that a player could just overuse beams and bolt.. hope ya understand

Re:Extreme AM Report

Szlat — GMT

Thè-Hättêr wrote:

...why not a "bar" call it whatever you want it. could be just a number. now megablast take let say 60% of the bar. and u cant use it again, at least until you wait few feconds and the bar fill at least with the 20% you need, now you can use megablast again ( you have a 100% bar, use megablast (100-60=40) therefore you need 20% to use megablast again), if you want to use megablast again, you need now to wait until 60% is in the "bar"......

That is what the adrenaline does.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Thè-Hättêr — GMT

not exactly, since adrenaline can be get by adren drip, adren surge, or killing, but the bar cant.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Elite — GMT

Ok just so I get things straight... the beam will deal the most damage to one monster, the chain lightning will deal the exact same damage as the beam but distributed among more than 2 monsters, and the fireball will deal a fixed amount of damage and can deal splash damage to nearby monsters but over time as it burns will deal the exact same damage as the beam. Okay this is what I think, am I wrong?

Re:Extreme AM Report

Spacey — GMT

I know when I was playing last night, I was finding it hard to keep my adren up with either the rod or the bolt. And this was with a capped off inf rocket and e+4 flak. Then we had a few maps when one of the MM's was running around with 3 red skarj, and things were even worse. This is even before you consider the confounded "You cannot use this artifact again yet" which I keep getting, along with an apparent set of times where the bolt would not fire, with the monster clearly targeted (sometimes at very VERY close range). I have screen caps I will have to move off my system and put where they can be shown, complete with the scoreboard, and the F3 screens for myself and that MM. (BTW... I have shots of almost every single game going way back of the scoreboard and F3 screens which I can try to dig out if there is interest).

Re:Extreme AM Report

Szlat — GMT

Elite wrote:

Ok just so I get things straight... the beam will deal the most damage to one monster, the chain lightning will deal the exact same damage as the beam but distributed among more than 2 monsters, and the fireball will deal a fixed amount of damage and can deal splash damage to nearby monsters but over time as it burns will deal the exact same damage as the beam. Okay this is what I think, am I wrong?

Pretty much yes. The fireball I was thinking of as pretty much like a flak shell or rocket, that the AM fires and which explodes causing splash damage. I hadn't thought about having a burn effect which continues to hurt over time. I don't mind - whichever way people think will work best. If it burns, the initial splash damage will be less.

Spacey wrote:

I know when I was playing last night, I was finding it hard to keep my adren up with either the rod or the bolt. And this was with a capped off inf rocket and e+4 flak. Then we had a few maps when one of the MM's was running around with 3 red skarj, and things were even worse. This is even before you consider the confounded "You cannot use this artifact again yet" which I keep getting, along with an apparent set of times where the bolt would not fire, with the monster clearly targeted (sometimes at very VERY close range).

At the moment the MMs are too powerful due to the red skaarj. This will be fixed after the next build. In the current build, the rod is not any more effective for the Extreme AM than for other players.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Re:Extreme AM Report

RoadKill v3.4 — GMT

Ratar_Killer wrote:

BTW, Road, the double and triple have no effect on the bolt, beam or blast, which are the main weapons of this class.

what about rod,fireball,chain lighting ? I'm itching to try out the EAM class maybe I'll have to get my AM to lvl 200 to try it out

Re:Extreme AM Report

Szlat — GMT

RoadKill v3.4 wrote:

Ratar_Killer wrote:

BTW, Road, the double and triple have no effect on the bolt, beam or blast, which are the main weapons of this class.
what about rod,fireball,chain lighting ?

Rod, MegaBlast and FireBall are affected by the double/triple. Beam, Bolt and Chain Lightning are not affected. (The policy I followed was that either it was "special" and so bypassed DB/DR/abilities, and hence should also bypass DD, or it was "normal" and so should be affected by them all. Rod is the funny one that doesn't fit the rule).

Re:Extreme AM Report

Ratar_Killer — GMT

Szlat wrote:

RoadKill v3.4 wrote:

Ratar_Killer wrote:

BTW, Road, the double and triple have no effect on the bolt, beam or blast, which are the main weapons of this class.
what about rod,fireball,chain lighting ?
Rod, MegaBlast and FireBall are affected by the double/triple. Beam, Bolt and Chain Lightning are not affected. (The policy I followed was that either it was "special" and so bypassed DB/DR/abilities, and hence should also bypass DD, or it was "normal" and so should be affected by them all. Rod is the funny one that doesn't fit the rule).

Triple megablast!!!! O i'm trying that out today :)

Re:Extreme AM Report

Szlat — GMT

Ratar_Killer wrote:

Triple megablast!!!! O i'm trying that out today :)

Bear in mind that the triple damage artifact only does double damage in invasion.

Re:Extreme AM Report

synchronyze — GMT

Szlat wrote:

Bear in mind that the triple damage artifact only does double damage in invasion.

:o that explains a lot, it never quite felt like triple damage. That should be in the wiki haha.

Re:Extreme AM Report

dom60 — GMT

but doesn't the megablast require 250 adren? if so where you get'n the extra adren to run the trip then the mega???? :-?

Re:Extreme AM Report

Szlat — GMT

dom60 wrote:

but doesn't the megablast require 250 adren? if so where you get'n the extra adren to run the trip then the mega???? :-?

The standard cost for MegaBlast is 200, but Extreme AMs get it at half price, so it only costs them 100. To compensate, they only get half weapon damage.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Elite — GMT

I still think the Beam is too effective against titans, 2 consecutive shots within almost a second and a titan goes down. With smaller monsters it is okay as it is harder to aim and hit them, but with titans being so big this character steals from the rest of the classes, perhaps the beam would do reduced damage to titans and queens? It takes about 4-5 flak kills to kill a titan with a normal WM why should it take an AM only 2?... and when it comes to the rod and a double damage your adrenaline just wont go down anymore. The rod and triple is now sustainable which is not a good thing, as the rod does more damage with this character. The chain lightning definitely needs to cover a greater area in order to hit more monsters and a boost in power. Most of the time it only hits 1 monster and sometimes it doesn't even kill the 1 monster it hits, making it not as efficient compared to the beam. I would strongly advise to lower the timers of the fireball and the chain lightning and increase the timer on the beam. And if you do not want to decrease the timer on the fireball perhaps a lock on like the avril but with a faster lock on than the normal avril? It currently takes 8 shots with the fireball to kill a titan, and you can only shoot the fireball once every 2 seconds... meaning it takes around 16 seconds to kill one titan with a fireball. While with the beam you can shoot it twice in 1 second meaning 1 titan per second since it only takes 2 shots to kill a titan. It takes 7 shots with the chain lightning to take out a titan, but can only be fired once every 2 seconds. And why are the chain lightning and fireball artifacts added to all AM's shouldn't it be specifically to the Extreme AM class? since the Extreme Monster class has different pets, and all engineer specialists have better toys in which ever part they specialize, it would mainly be to give it uniqueness. Especially, since in the normal AM classes, those artifacts are or at least should be weaker, thus meaning they would be used less.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Thè-Hättêr — GMT

ditto...

Re:Extreme AM Report

RoadKill v3.4 — GMT

Elite wrote:

. The rod and triple is now sustainable which is not a good thing, as the rod does more damage with this character.

thanks for testing Elite I don't use the Triple/Rod combo much anymore but it has limitations with a standard AM. The word sustainable kinda scares me. For how long ?!

Re:Extreme AM Report

Szlat — GMT

Thanks for the extra testing Elite

Elite wrote:

I still think the Beam is too effective against titans, 2 consecutive shots within almost a second and a titan goes down. With smaller monsters it is okay as it is harder to aim and hit them, but with titans being so big this character steals from the rest of the classes, perhaps the beam would do reduced damage to titans and queens? It takes about 4-5 flak kills to kill a titan with a normal WM why should it take an AM only 2?...

How about I limit the beam to a max of 200 damage? It is currently limited to the max of 200 or half the monsters original health - so it will currently do 450 against a titan. So if I get rid of the health based option, and just have a 200 limit things like skaarj and behemoths would be as now, but titans, warlords and queens would take more hits?

Elite wrote:

....and when it comes to the rod and a double damage your adrenaline just wont go down anymore. The rod and triple is now sustainable which is not a good thing, as the rod does more damage with this character.

For a long time I have wanted to not have the rod work with DD/TD, but the WMs were against it.

Elite wrote:

The chain lightning definitely needs to cover a greater area in order to hit more monsters and a boost in power. Most of the time it only hits 1 monster and sometimes it doesn't even kill the 1 monster it hits, making it not as efficient compared to the beam. I would strongly advise to lower the timers of the fireball and the chain lightning and increase the timer on the beam. And if you do not want to decrease the timer on the fireball perhaps a lock on like the avril but with a faster lock on than the normal avril?

I have updated Chain Lightning to improve the chaining. We will have to see how that goes once it is rolled out.

Elite wrote:

And why are the chain lightning and fireball artifacts added to all AM's shouldn't it be specifically to the Extreme AM class? since the Extreme Monster class has different pets, and all engineer specialists have better toys in which ever part they specialize, it would mainly be to give it uniqueness. Especially, since in the normal AM classes, those artifacts are or at least should be weaker, thus meaning they would be used less.

But the WM specialists/extreme don't get anything extra, and I don't want those to be left out by themselves.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Ratar_Killer — GMT

Flame me if you like, but for the best balance of the game I have Changed Beam and Bolt so they will do a maximum of 200 damage. It used to be the the maximum of 200 or half the victims health. Extreme AMs were taking down titans too fast Rod now does single damage even if you run a DD or TD - like the Beam or Bolt do. You have a choice - it goes through DB/DR like normal damage and gets affected by the DD/TD, or it does none of them. Change mainly brought on by Extreme AMs being too powerful, but also it was dominating the game too much. Let's tweak this down, and other things up if need be. But for Extreme AMs to be able to sustain the rod and TD will kill the game

Here comes the Flame!!! Please dont take the triple off the Rod for regular AM. It's really the only way I can survive on wave 12. I really believe it will take so much away from the class. I rarely put heart felt emotion into my posts, but it would be wrong to do this to the AM. I suggest eliminating the Rod from Extreme AM's and make it so they cant pick it up. I am really against this change, Please take into consideration my time on this server and my AM level. Thank you

Re:Extreme AM Report

Thè-Hättêr — GMT

same goes here, i havent acces to extreme AM however in my level around 100, its just not fine! triple and rod works fine in normal AM, maybe in Extreme AM ( havent test it yet), but never in my entire life i have been able to mantain triple and rod! if an AM take the DD its ok, not in every map is DD and there is a lot of competition this days for the DD...

Re:Extreme AM Report

RoadKill v3.4 — GMT

No flame here :) I've said long ago the rod has too far a reach, reigning this in may just be a better option IMHO The Triple/Rod combo even if not sustainable for long as an AM is extremely powerful and un-aimed (always been a bigger issue to me) ability as a alternative to all may I suggest the damage sphere ; works with piercing/vorpal weapons, benefits all players around ,and is a great source of xp :)

Re:Extreme AM Report

Ratar_Killer — GMT

RoadKill v3.4 wrote:

The Triple/Rod combo even if not sustainable for long as an AM is extremely powerful and un-aimed (always been a bigger issue to me) ability

This would be a valid argument if the high score table was dominated by AM's. As it stands now all the big high scores go to Eng and WM. Fact is low level Eng have trounced AM scores. Seriously, how can anyone say that the AM's are over powered.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Szlat — GMT

The score table will be dominated by engineers, due to their linking. So the real important figure is the xp gained per map. This is what affects how frequently people level up. The current rumour going around is that Elite got more than 10,000 xp in a single map with his Adrenaline Master. Agreed it was as an Extreme AM rather than a normal AM, but it is too much. Which means the most exploitable bit has to be capped. Elite - we probably need you to clarify a) if the rumour is true? b) what was the thing overpowered? In his post earlier, Elite mentions a number of things. One is the speed at which Extreme AMs can take out titans with the Beam - which I have applied a change to. The other is the rod/triple being too powerful. For the moment, at Ratar's request, I have put the Rod/TD change on hold, while we discuss more. I think we need some sort of change, as the combo dominates too much. When people say they can't survive without one thing, then that one thing is too powerful - well it can't be balanced can it? So how about other options? The problem is once you get on a multi-kill spree, the adrenaline keeps flooding in.

we could make it work less well as time goes on. So it will run ok for 30 secs, but then needs to be rested for a minute. Just to break the sprees.

We could make it work less well the more kills it gets. So once you get more than say 50 kills with the rod, its usefullness drops.

We could make it do normal damage rather than bypassing db/dr. Thoughts?

Re:Extreme AM Report

Ratar_Killer — GMT

I would be fine with removing the spree's all together from the rod/triple/double combo. It more about survival, then xp. Has anyone thought about upping the difficulty level? Dru did that about 2 years ago, and now with the new charaters and sub classes, maybe it's time for a boost. Do we really need to finish everymap? There has been alot of discussion about thing being over powered for the last year or so, maybe the levels are just underpowered. P.S. especially with the invention of ENG bases survival has gone way up.

Re:Extreme AM Report

F8_AL — GMT

Upping the difficulty might be unfair on lower level characters though. They arn't being buffed by any of the changes and deffinatly cant use rod+triple. i think that making the last few waves from 12 onwards harder would be ok, because that way lower level players will have at least part of the game where they can kill things. adding a boss level at tthe end would be fun =)

Re:Extreme AM Report

dom60 — GMT

ok when things got harder we got free regen and ghost until lvl 40 for the new characters/ players. I never use the triple except on rare occasions and never in combo with the rod adren vanishes to fast!....so it is something with the way the extreme am is set up if they can run it without running out of adren so that is what needs changed not a across the board change. hell with my new general/trooper char I am a happy camper to get a lucky so that I can get a rod and use the medic rocket launcher to self heal blast critters with a dbl/rod going when there's a big crowd at my wall i've set up and i'm right at lvl 40 now with that char and have not crossed the 1k score yet theres been quite a few times my little base would of been over-run without being able to do that, sometimes its just a rod with no dbl. but since this seems to be a ETREME AM issue changed that char not the system...at least until it proves to be a prob with the regular am's :)

Re:Extreme AM Report

Ryuxen — GMT

Ratar_Killer wrote:

I would be fine with removing the spree's all together from the rod/triple/double combo. It more about survival, then xp. Has anyone thought about upping the difficulty level? Dru did that about 2 years ago, and now with the new charaters and sub classes, maybe it's time for a boost. Do we really need to finish everymap? There has been alot of discussion about thing being over powered for the last year or so, maybe the levels are just underpowered. P.S. especially with the invention of ENG bases survival has gone way up.

How about new waves, from wave 16 to 20, 4 new levels of waves but really EXTREME, low level players will die or maybe not if they hide in bases and shooting from there, more intense monsters and more exp. With those 4 new waves will encourage new players to lvl up so they can deal with the new extreme waves.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Elite — GMT

Szlat wrote:

Which means the most exploitable bit has to be capped. Elite - we probably need you to clarify a) if the rumour is true? b) what was the thing overpowered?

Yes it is true I have been able to score around 10,000 in points and in xp almost double that, but this happens on rare maps of course but still this should not happen at all. Before as a normal AM the triple and rod would take out most of the monsters especially the small ones without much trouble, it would only have trouble when against gas bags, queens, and titans. But with the Extreme AM, it can take out any monster, with the small critters I can use the triple and rod and for the big ones just 2 zaps from the beam and they are gone and since they both do piercing damage theres no trouble when being last especially when you start off with max adrenaline every time. I have already suggested what should be done in the previous posts, and the things that are overpowered IMHO are the triple and rod for original AM and definitely for Extreme AM, and then the beam only for Extreme AM.

Re:Extreme AM Report

Elite — GMT

And now for those others who were suggesting adding more waves or increasing the level of the monsters, what has happened is the classes have become more diverse enabling a player to adapt to almost any map and any situation. The classes have not gotten stronger and the ones that did will get nerfed in time, but aside from that monsters have not changed one bit so why should their level? I suggest just as our classes expanded into different specialties and areas, shouldn't the monsters as well? To make things fair at least? I am not saying to add monsters that only a certain class can kill, but to add monsters that are more effective in killing a certain class, but less effective in killing another class. For instance: for the engineers their weakness is their constructions, all you need would be a monster that would specifically target the constructions above any other target, making it is sole priority. It could be a monster that has the exact same effect that a hellbender or any land vehicle has when it runs into engineer blocks distorting them and damaging parts of the base. Or it could be a monster that would try and take out a vehicle or turret or sentinel by using an ultima of some sort, just ideas. For the adrenaline master, their weakness is their adrenaline, I know this has been discussed before but what about the mage idea that would target adrenaline masters and deplete their adrenaline and while depleting their adrenaline it would damage the health of the AM according to how much adrenaline was lost (ex. if 250 adrenaline was absorbed then 250 damage would be done leaving most AMs with 50 health left) For the WM their weakness is their vamparism, so why not add a monster that acts as a parasite once latched onto the WM, starts off as a pupae, but as the WM kills so does the parasite always feeding off the WM, and only another player would be able to kill the parasite, giving more damage to the WM as it grows. But if the WM dies then so would the parasite unless it can find another WM to latch on to. For the Medics their weakness is their pets except for the Extreme Medic, but anyway a monster that would turn pets into normal monsters even with the attributes it currently had. For example if cribbage summons a red skaarj with everything maxed including retaliation and countershove, and one of these monsters gets a hand on it and posseses it then the red skaarj would turn on him with increased damage bonus and damage reduction, and since most pets follow the owner it would target the owner first since the owner has the exact same attributes as the pet does. So it would not target a lower level player. And if the pet succeeds and kills the owner then the pet itself would also die or if you want it could stay alive and try and kill the rest of the players, just an idea. I do not know if I posted this on the wrong place but since people started the subject here it felt right to try and give an suggestion to what they were thinking. Also every class would be less effective in killing their own specific monster

Re:Extreme AM Report

Spacey — GMT

Ratar_Killer wrote:

Here comes the Flame!!! Please dont take the triple off the Rod for regular AM. It's really the only way I can survive on wave 12. I really believe it will take so much away from the class. I rarely put heart felt emotion into my posts, but it would be wrong to do this to the AM. I suggest eliminating the Rod from Extreme AM's and make it so they cant pick it up. I am really against this change, Please take into consideration my time on this server and my AM level. Thank you

Re:Extreme AM Report

Spacey — GMT

Hatter... you hit part of my concern on the top of the head. Elite is our most elite player. And your point #4 is also something which is a concern. However, I will add that we need a good number of players with 3 or all 4 classes all the same level to do good comparisons. Even Elite does better with one class than another, from the data shown on gametracker, with his AM getting a long-term average score/min of 91.16, his medic 74.68, his WM (Elite_Guard) 74.5 and his Engi 69.94. Oddly, his times played are inversely proportional to his scores/min. The computer scientist/engineer in me knows our method of comparison is far from ideal. The best way to do the comparison would be to record data at the end of each wave which included things like time played, kills/deaths by weapon, score and xp for each player, and write each game to a new file, along with the map info. This, along with a number of us having 4 nearly identical players of different classes, and a daily snapshot of how we have spent the points, with each round of tests running say a week, would be the best way to do the comparison, especially if we had a smaller set of maps during the tests. Oh... and Hatter is pretty much dead on on #2, and I am indeed looking at pics I take at the end of every game for the F1 score page, my F3 screen to show my kills by weapon, and my L screen to show my XP. Every now and then, I will take a snap of somebody else's F3 screen (Elite's 10K game would probably have caused me to take a look at his).

Re:Extreme AM Report

dom60 — GMT

he he well all of mine are at the 100 spot to maybe 111 except for my general class thats about to go to 41..no more free ghost!