Messages posted by: BattleMode

Most of the enhancements are similar to those in RPG. Most of this mutator will probably serve as raw material for UT3 RPG stuff.

This mutator allows you to tune many aspects of UT3 like weapon switching speed, fire rate of weapons, walking speed, extra starting health, health regeneration, extra high jumping, dodge jumping, max ammo, ammo regeneration and starting the game with all weapons.

Everything is fully configurable so you can choose which settings you want to use.

Every setting has been tested to work with dedicated servers.

V4.1 -> V5
Removed the HUD enhancements pending Epic patch.
Added CfgbAllWeapons, CfgHealthRegenPerSecond, CfgHealthMaxRegen,
CfgAmmoResupplyPerSecond and CfgbAllowDodgeJumping settings.
Fixed CfgWeaponSwitchSpeedMultiplier to work properly for dedicated servers.

Download: http://www.onsrpg.com/ut3mods.php (full source code included)

Might it perhaps be Druid is extremely busy lately?

Szlat wrote:

BattleMode wrote:

... Preferably the ability class should have it's own private INI (or share those with a bunch of them in a package) for ability specific settings, generic settings (e.g. how many levels has the ability, what do those cost) should be handled by generic settings in the RPG Core....
I think one ini per ability will be overkill. One ini detailing all the abilities should be fine. We may want this ini separate from the one storing the PlayerData.

I should have been more precise and said one INI file per ability collection. It should somehow be possible to mix abilities from different authors on one server without INI mixups.

Szlat wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

....I might even take it a step further and suggest that abilities and artifacts be named as generically as possible, and, if possible, have a configurable display name via ini.
Agreed

Perhaps the new language file stuff should be used for this (didn't really study it yet though).

This may sound weird but I don't think RPG classes should also be UnrealScript classes. I think only abilities, artifacts and weapon magic types should be classes.

How everything is cooked up (e.g. which abilities require you to have certain other abilities, which RPG classes are there and which RPG class is needed for which abilities) should be 100% dynamic. In other words you should have a INI in which you can define all those things and the RPG Core should handle all that. This would allow server owners to decide how the RPG classes should work, and if they even want RPG classes at all.

As to classes for e.g. abilities I think there should be only 2 layers, not more. A base class in the RPG Core from which the ability class is derived. There should be as much plumbing as possible in the RPG Core to make creating and modifying abilities (etc.) as easy as possible. Preferably the ability class should have it's own private INI (or share those with a bunch of them in a package) for ability specific settings, generic settings (e.g. how many levels has the ability, what do those cost) should be handled by generic settings in the RPG Core. If certain abilities exclude each other for technical reasons (not for gameplay reasons those can be handled by the INI files of the RPG Core) perhaps there should be a system like Epic made for mutators to have them exclude each other although this is a tough one and handling it in the RPG Core INI might turn out to be the most practical solution.

(This will be useful for things like adding RPG Levels to the scoreboard, I think that is a nicer solution then a hidden screen somewhere, I think this is also useful for modifying the HUD and adding things like XP and Mana, but that part needs some more research)

Pfhoenix wrote:

This may be asking much, but the community could really use even a single page walkthrough of modifying the scoreboards as you did with BattleMod. Good stuff, though, and we'll see how Epic fixes UI handling later on.

I will try to do that.

BattleMOD can be found here: http://www.onsrpg.com/ut3mods.php all source code is included a screenshot is there as well. One of the things it does is change the scoreboard to add PPH. I will try to make a step by step on how to do this with probably a few tiny mistakes.

First it is necessary to understand how the PPH gets on the screen.
- A player has a HUD
- The HUD contains a UI Scene
- The UI Scene refers to the scoreboard class
- The scoreboard class puts the text on the screen

So to get the PPH to the screen all those things have to be changed.

STEP 1
First you need to uncook UI_Scenes_Scoreboards.upk with the UT3 editor since this one contains the 5 (!) UI Scenes which need to be changed. Instructions on how to uncook can be found here: http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=585462

STEP 2
I copied the entire uncooked UI_Scenes_Scoreboards.upk and named it UI_Scenes_Scoreboards_BM.upk. Each UI Scene contains multiple panels. E.g. a VCTF UI Scene has a panel for RED and a panel for BLUE players. The panels refer to the scoreboard classes.

STEP 3
You need to create the custom scoreboard panels (e.g. BattleCTFScoreboardPanel as derived from UTCTFScoreboardPanel), compile them and publish them (unpublished doesn't work) BEFORE you start editing the UI_Scenes_Scoreboards_BM.upk. Otherwise you will refer to a non existing class which will make the UT3 Editor crash. You learn to save often very quickly. See my mod for the exact source code for the panels.

STEP 4
The simplest way to change the class the panel refers to is to copy the panel to the clipboard, paste in into notepad, replace the class, delete the original panel, copy the notepad version to the clipboard and paste it back into the UT3 Editor. It's a tad tricky to get the new panel to the exact same position the old one came from. I did this by copying the coordinates to the clipboard before I removed the old one and pasting them back for the new one. You will need to try this to completely understand. An example replacement is to replace UTCTFScoreboardPanel with BattleCTFScoreboardPanel (just like there are multiple UI Scenes there are also multiple scoreboard panels).

STEP 5
Now you need to make custom HUDs refering to the custom UI Scenes. Like BattleCTFHUD derived from UTCTFHUD containing a property like ScoreboardSceneTemplate=Scoreboard_CTF'UI_Scenes_Scoreboards_BM.sbCTF' to make it refer to the new scoreboard. Just like you needed a bunch of scoreboard panels and a bunch of UI Scenes, you need a bunch of HUDs.

STEP 6
Now you need to get the game to actually use the HUD. In the ModifyPlayer of the mutator you call things like PC.ClientSetHUD (Class'BattleOnslaughtHUD', Worldinfo.Game.Scoreboardtype); to replace the HUD. Again you need to do this for all those different HUDs for all different gametypes. For details see the source code.

You also need to call UTPC.LoadSettingsFromProfile (True); to make it all work properly, without that the HUD will do funny things. I am not entirely sure but I figure this properly initializes your brand new HUD. It was one of those try everything until it works things.

STEP 7
The funny thing is STEP 1 - STEP 6 only prepared for the real thing. Now you can start hacking nice things into your custom scoreboards (e.g. BattleCTFScoreboardPanel) to do things like adding PPH.

WARNING: There is a bug in UT3 (which I reported and Epic promised to fix: http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?p=25126917) which prevents proper usage of a autodownloaded custom UI Scene.

Szlat wrote:

BattleMode wrote:

Perhaps, I suffer from chronic impatience. But I only have about 20 hours a week for this, so I think joining forces on this could be very useful. Either by building a common RPG Core and both creating things like abilities and magic for it, or by each going our own way but exchanging as much code as possible.
I have less time per week until mid-Jan due to other commitments. So, either solution makes sense. A significant proportion of it will be porting and tweaking old code - there seems little point doing each bit of code more than once

Agreed.

Szlat wrote:

I am more in favor of the common core.

Agreed.

Szlat wrote:

However, Druid needs his say on this discussion.

Understood, he will probably be the one who makes the decisions on the DC part of all of this.

Szlat wrote:

I suggest we make sure it is easy to extend the RPG by adding extra classes.

Agreed, give the huge differences on this matter it should be highly configurable. One of the options has to be no classes at all (e.g. the current Titan and ONSRPG crowds are used to that).

Szlat wrote:

It then needs to be easy for people to say which skills can be purchased by what classes. It would be really nice if this could be done in an ini file, so server admins rather than programmers can do it.

Agreed, although this will make configuring everything more complicated.

Szlat wrote:

We also need to allow server admins to tweak skills. e.g. energy leech 3 levels @10 points per level, 3% leech bonus. This will give server admins greater control over balancing their own server

I have been thinking about a method of making abilities into mutators (or a special kind of mutators) which can have private INI files and make the RPG Core manage all this. Not sure yet if that will be possible with UT3. In my ideal world you should be able to pick a random mutator and transform it into a ability (or magic or artifact), but probably this will be hard to achieve.

Szlat wrote:

And the skill selection screen should only show those skills available to the selected class. It should still show skills that you cannot yet purchase due to some other pre-requisite e.g. level.

I am not sure yet the new UI Scenes in UT3 will make all this possible. It will probably be a tough (sub)project to achieve.

Szlat wrote:

Wail wrote:

I'm not particularly fond of the idea of classes, I'd prefer a more dynamic system with ability trees based on prerequisites and exclusion from certain lines.
One of the problems with this though is that it is more difficult to understand what impacts on what. In the days before classes, there was a system that if you bought some skills then you were restricted from others. So as a new player, you see regeneration and buy it - not knowing that it forced you down a path and excluded you from other things. The comments on an ability frequently state what the pre-requisites are, but cannot easily say what it excludes you from in an extendible system.
At least classes help define what route you are taking. Once you choose the class, you cannot then accidently choose something that limits your further purchases.

There are different approaches to this. Both Titan and ONSRPG use RPG variants that do not have classes. Perhaps it is gametype related (Titan mostly does VCTF, ONSRPG does ONS). As to people making mistakes when buying abilities, the ONSRPG variant of RPG has a rebuild button allowing people to re-spend their points.

Szlat wrote:

BattleMode wrote:

I didn't realize people here knew http://www.onsrpg.com existed . Have I ever met you online?
I haven't played on the ONSRPG server. I noticed when you became the latest person to join the DC forum, and then you didn't post - which is strange. Then I noticed your name on the UT3 mods pages, and noticed the post on your site about monitoring the DC forum

The Internet is a funny beast

. I created an account to contact Druid. Invasion is not really my thing, so I did some looking around here, but have a fairly low level on your server.

Szlat wrote:

BattleMode wrote:

Agreed, my own plan (http://www.onsrpg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=596) is based on this approach as well. I executed phase 1 and 2 of it and intend to start on phase 3 next weekend.
I think you may be moving faster than we do on DC.

Perhaps, I suffer from chronic impatience. But I only have about 20 hours a week for this, so I think joining forces on this could be very useful. Either by building a common RPG Core and both creating things like abilities and magic for it, or by each going our own way but exchanging as much code as possible.

Szlat wrote:

BattleMode wrote:

I think there should be an extra abstraction layer allowing upgrades of RPG (assuming it consists of some core RPG and add ons adding all kinds of abilities) without ever having to edit the player database INI file.
It would be very useful. However, there are lots of occasions where you want to replace one ability with another one, or change the costs or requirements of abilities, that could make this quite difficult.

Not at all. Simply make the translation value invalid and make the RPG Core in such a way invalid values are deleted automatically.

So instead of using actual abilities in the user database you use descriptions referring to them. You store the translation of those descriptions to the actual abilities in a separate (much smaller) INI file. If you decide to make an ability more expensive (which means everyone having the ability will have to lose it) you simply rename the description. The RPG core will discover the description is no longer valid and removes it from all the players automatically. Those who want to can buy the ability again. This would also allow you to change requirements (which abilities are needed to buy other ones) without having to edit the user database. This would also allow you to replace a class by a different one without having to rename references to that class in the user database.

Szlat wrote:

But I have very limited experience running a server, and I was quite happy hacking the ini file. Sites with thousands of players will have different requirements.

Yeah with 12712 builds in a database INI hacking becomes a tad anoying

Szlat wrote:

All of the player stats need to be saved server side. By default, UT2004RPG used to save to the ini file. Is that what we want, or do we want to be able to save to some other sort of database file? I think this needs discussion by the people who have admin'd servers.

I think there should be an extra abstraction layer allowing upgrades of RPG (assuming it consists of some core RPG and add ons adding all kinds of abilities) without ever having to edit the player database INI file.

Szlat wrote:

and the Menu system has definitely changed, and may change again in the first UT3 patch.

It sure did. The UI Scenes take some getting used to but they seem very powerful (I already made something based on them: http://www.onsrpg.com/ut3mods.php).

Szlat wrote:

The HUD may want some sort of awareness bar, as well as extra information about what power-ups are on what weapons, and what artifacts you have.

Agreed.

I am firmly in favor of introducing some form of adrenaline. Someone on my forum suggested calling it Mana (http://www.onsrpg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=596&p=6258#p6256). A lot of RPG is build around adrenaline so I think it is an essential ingredient. My BattleMOD mutator (http://www.onsrpg.com/ut3mods.php) contains a custom HUD and custom scoreboard which can be used to add extra information like RPG level and "Mana" to the game.

Szlat wrote:

Well, someone has to start this rolling. So, let's start the discussions I am not sure what the official status of the RPG is. It may be that Mysterial will yet develop it, in which case we should wait for the "official" version.

I asked Mysterial about this a little while ago and he didn't yet decide on it. Druid is going to ask again so perhaps he made up his mind by now.

Szlat wrote:

In the meantime, I know that a number of other people are thinking about implementing UT3RPG in some form or other. BattleMode is contemplating a BattleRPG - although I think he is more likely to create an enhanced version rather than a straight port. See his web site here

I didn't realize people here knew http://www.onsrpg.com existed

. Have I ever met you online?

Szlat wrote:

If we decide to implement a UT3RPG, my preference would be not to just do a straight port. Instead, we should take a step back and evaluate what worked well, and what didn't work as well as expected. Also, there will be changes due to the inherent difference between UT2004 and UT3, which means some things will be easier, and others more difficult.

As you perhaps know I am discussing with Druid if we perhaps should join forces on some form of UT3 RPG. I already stared developing my own version and totally agree with you a straight port is not the best approach. I have made a draft technical design here: http://www.onsrpg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=598 in which I address the things I think can be done better compared to the current RPG. The main theme here is that I think everything should be very flexible to allow things like RAD and to allow every server owner to create their own flavor. You seem to have similar ideas.

Szlat wrote:

I would suggest going for a phased approach - implementing some of the core stuff first, then adding goodies over time.

Agreed, my own plan (http://www.onsrpg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=596) is based on this approach as well. I executed phase 1 and 2 of it and intend to start on phase 3 next weekend.

Szlat wrote:

It looks like it ought to be possible to implement it.

Agreed, one minor problem might be the huge amount of bugs in the current UT3 but I think Epic will solve the most important ones in the near future. I created a mutator with a custom scoreboard (to learn how this works, and I think RPG levels should be on the scoreboard) http://www.onsrpg.com/ut3mods.php and I ran into some serious problems with UT3's auto downloading there (http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=588343).